My Budget Alternative To Rep. Paul Ryan's "Path To Survival Of The Fittest"
81My Budget Alternative to Paul Ryan's "Path to Survival of the Fittest"
Many people were anxiously awaiting Rep. Paul Ryan's budget plan entitled "The Path to Prosperity" . I was one of them. Ryan is the Republican House Budget Committee Chairman and he had a reputation for being a responsible budget cutter. I expected extremely sharp cuts in most programs but not a draconian social re-engineering of our entire social safety net. Medicare and Medicaid become voucher programs under his plan which will effectively destroy them. He would also repeal the new Healthcare Reform program just passed in 2010. He claims he will drastically cut corporate welfare by ending bailouts and dismantling Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Curiously he refuses to touch tax breaks that immensely profitable corporations such as oil companies receive. Many programs are eliminated or slashed that have the broad support of the Democratic party while leaving intact programs that are favorites of the Republican party. These programs represent a negligible percentage of the budget and thus are simply partisan political cuts. The middle and lower classes have been effectively stripped of most of the social programs that they rely on in this Ryan budget plan. To add insult to injury, he also included tax cuts for the wealthy and added tax breaks and incentives for Corporate America while making those social safety net cuts. I agree with Rep. Ryan that we urgently need to close this massive budget deficit. It threatens to destroy our country's creditworthiness and will saddle our children and grandchildren with crushing debt. But Rep. Ryan's plan is a cruel insult to the working class of the United States. If implemented it will drop millions into poverty and leave millions more extremely vulnerable. We can do better than this and I have my own plan to start significantly cutting the budget deficit without endangering the welfare of the vast majority of our citizens. I will address only the three largest parts of the federal budget because they are the only areas that will yield significant savings or revenue to address this massive deficit. These areas are Defense and Homeland Security, social entitlements, and the tax code. Only these components will yield the savings and revenue that will put the United States on the road to fiscal solvency without sacrificing the working class of our country.
The United States military complex has been growing exponentially since the end of World War II. President Dwight Eisehhower warned the nation about the dangers of this phenomenon at the end of his second term. This rapid growth continued on unchecked whether there was a war being conducted or not. The Cold War was the usual reason given for this growth until the Soviet Union fell apart in the 1980's. Yet this growth continued through the 1990's even without a war to blame it on. Then the 9/11 attacks occurred in 2001 sending military and homeland security spending soaring. Combine this with the subsequent Afghanistan and Iraq Wars and defense spending went through the roof. Military spending for 2012 is scheduled to total 680 billion dollars. Total defense spending including Homeland Security departments will total 881 billion. The spending for the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars will be 118 billion. These runaway expenditures must be cut back sharply. Serious cuts may be achieved through a continuation of Secretary Gates' proposals for sharp reductions in redundant weapons systems and bases. I also believe there should be sharp reductions in troop levels in Europe and Asia. Nuclear weapons expenses should also drop as a result of the new nuclear arms treaty with Russia. I believe we can achieve 80 billions dollars worth of savings annually by way of these cuts. By 2015 the U.S. war committments in Afghanistan and Iraq should be down dramatically consisting of advisory and support troops. Expenses should be down to a total of 30 billion dollars per year at a maximum. That will save us 90 billion dollars annually. This makes my final estimate of defense savings for military, defense, and homeland security 170 billion dollars a year. It will take a lot of political muscle and tenacity to navigate this plan through Congress, the military brass, and the defense contractor lobbies. If done correctly it will strengthen our economic security without lessening our national defense.
Now let us turn to the area where Paul Ryan was the most controversial and cruel. This would be entitlements spending. The four main programs involved here are Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and the new Healthcare Reform plan. Let's start with Social Security. I constantly hear that this program is broken. Nonsense! Demographics caused by the retirement of the Baby Boomers will be causing a shortfall in this program for a few decades. The fix is a simple one and long overdue. There is an income threshold where social security deductions can be withheld from employee paychecks but no higher. Currently this income level is $106,800. Social Security has not undergone a major change in its structure since 1983. I believe now is the time for a change especially with so many Baby Boomers retiring. The retirement benefits eligibility age has already been pushed higher a couple of times. I think it is now time to raise that income threshold to $120,000. My estimate is that this change will generate an additional 50 billion dollars a year into the Social Security fund. Next let us turn to what is probably the thorniest entitlements program. That would be Medicare. A large amount of savings in the Medicare program has already been included in the Healthcare Reform bill which will begin to kick in during the year 2014. I believe another 20 billion dollars annually in waste and fraud can be extracted out of this system. Unfortunately these cuts are not enough. Medicare spending is expected to total 468 billion dollars in 2012. Only 57% of this total is now financed through the Medicare withholding taxes. The government withholds 1.45% of an employee's wages per check for Medicare as well as taxing his or her employer the same amount. These rates have been in effect since 1987 which was many years before the Baby Boom generation were due to retire. The time has come to accommodate this major demographic shift. I propose that this rate be raised to 1.75%. This change would raise approximately another 56 billion dollars annually bringing the percentage of Medicare spending covered by Medicare withholding taxes up to 70%. The balance of Medicare funding comes from general revenues. Medicaid is fully funded by general revenues in the budget. The estimated 2012 expenditures for Medicaid is 269 billion dollars. I believe that 20 billion dollars of waste and fraud could easily be found in this massive yet essential program for the poor. I would also like to make some observations about the new Healthcare Reform plan which Rep. Ryan wants to repeal. Much skepticism has been leveled at this plan both during its creation and subsequently after its passage. Many predict it will cause the budget deficit to skyrocket. I totally disagree. My belief is that it was a carefully crafted plan and was designed to be budget neutral. I also believe it will remain so as long as its critics are unsuccessful in their attempts to have it significantly altered. Finally there are also several other mandatory programs that are estimated to cost American taxpayers a total of 598 billion dollars in 2012. I believe we can also find savings in these various programs of 60 billion dollars in fraud and waste without much problem. All told I have come up with 206 billion dollars in savings and tax rate hikes in our various entitlement programs that can be applied to the budget deficit.
The final aspect of the federal budget that I would like to address is the Federal Income Tax system. My budget deficit solution in this area comes in two parts. The first is very simple. The Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire at the end of 2012. I would like to repeal them immediately but that would not be politically feasible. The expiration of these tax cuts would yield the Treasury an extra 325 billion dollars annually. These cuts were foolishly passed in 2001 due to the large budget surpluses the U.S. was running after years of deficits. My belief is that these surpluses should have been applied to retiring much of the debt that we had incurred during previous years. The economy was humming along and did not need the stimulus that these tax cuts would provide. President George W. Bush promised these cuts in an effort to get himself elected in the 2000 Presidential election. So much for Republican economic common sense. These cuts immediately put us back into deficit and then the 9/11 attacks took place. The subsequent additional spending for homeland and national defense swelled the deficit even further. Then we entered into the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and our national budget deficit hit levels never imagined before. Yet President Bush never asked the American people for any sacrifice to fight this "War on Terror" that he had declared. I propose we now eliminate these tax cuts that we never could afford to help balance the budget and return us closer to the fiscal sanity of the 1990's. The other Federal Income Tax area that I would like to address are some corporate tax breaks and some individual deductions. The two industries that I would like to focus my corporate welfare tax breaks on are oil and farming. Both of these sectors are flourishing and are generating immense profits. It is hard to justify continuing their tax breaks in this dismal budget environment. The oil industry gets 21 billion dollars a year in tax breaks while they earn much more than that quarterly. These subsidies are almost one hundred years old and are clearly no longer necessary. The industry is now completely mature. Besides, we are attempting to transition to alternative renewable energy sources. The farm subsidies are an anachronism from the Great Depression era when a huge amount of small farmers were going bankrupt. Now U.S. farming is dominated by massive corporate farms which are commanding record profits. It is difficult to argue that they have a real need for the 20 billion dollars a year in subsidies they currently receive. I would also propose the elimination of the 3 billion dollar ethanol subsidy. Ethanol utilizes almost as much energy to create it than the energy it replaces. Therefore I consider this subsidy to be a total waste of money. I would also eliminate the state and local income tax deduction which costs the Treasury 50 billion dollars a year. This deduction always seem to be on the chopping block only to be saved at the last minute. I believe the time has come to finally strip this deduction out of the Federal Income Tax Code. Our deficit is too massive to allow it to continue. I would also place some restrictions on the home mortgage interest deduction. This deduction was abused in recent years helping to fuel the housing bubble. It helped finance many second homes, summer homes, and home equity loans. My restrictions would only allow this deduction for primary homes worth 1 million dollars or less. All other mortgages and home equity loans would now be ineligible for this deduction. The restrictions on this deduction will save the U.S. taxpayer approximately 25 billion dollars a year. All told my changes to the Federal Income Tax Code will generate an additional 444 billion dollars a year and cut the budget deficit by over 40%.
The estimated Federal budget deficit for 2012 without any changes stands at 1.1 trillion dollars. The combination of cuts and taxes that I have proposed in this article totals 820 billion dollars annually. I tried to formulate spending cuts and tax changes that made sense and were practical to at least one side of the political aisle. I state this because the Democrats seem unwilling to entertain most spending cuts and the Republicans are repelled by the mere suggestion of any tax hikes or tax break eliminations. Thus it seems impossible to please both sides on any one aspect of my plan. The biggest piece of my proposal is the elimination of the Bush tax cuts which would return us to the last era of fiscal sanity and prosperity. The Social Security and Medicare paycheck withholding increases will give these vital programs the ability to withstand the assault on them by the retirements of the Baby Boom Generation. The elimination of unnecessary tax breaks for the flourishing Oil and Farm industries also makes total sense. At the same time I am asking for severe and painful cuts to entitlement programs totalling 100 billion dollars. This is in addition to 170 billion dollars worth of defense spending cuts. Rep. Ryan estimates that his plan will achieve deficit savings of 4.4 trillion dollars over ten years. My plan would save 7.725 trillion dollars over the course of ten years. I expect increased revenues will be coming into the U.S. Treasury coffers as a result of the economic recovery. This amount should total around 200 billion dollars annually once the economy is at peak performance. It will probably take around three years for the economy to ramp up to this level. My plan combined with this economic and revenue resurgence should put the budget in balance or near balance by 2015. Rep. Ryan's plan leaves the deficit very far from balanced. His "Path to Prosperity" is heavier on cuts than mine but includes no additional tax revenues. Ironically it includes large tax cuts for the wealthy and Corporate America. This is just not fair and is a spit in the eye to working class America. This bears the classic imprint of Grover Norquist. Grover is president of the group entitled "Americans For Tax Reform". He is against any tax increases and any tax subsidy eliminations. His entire philosophy is quite simple. Starve government to shrink it. Norquist fights everyone tooth and nail to prevent any added tax revenues from entering the U.S. Treasury in any form. He has had virtually all Republicans sign his pledge to never raise taxes. He holds each and everyone of them to it and will campaign strongly against them if they renege on this promise in any way. I feel that my plan is much more fair to all citizens of the United States. It is more effective than the other plans I have read about and probably more politically palatable. The Far Left and the Far Right will most likely howl at my plan. I will take this as a sure sign that I am on to something good if that occurs. Most importantly, the elderly of this country will not be left to secure their own healthcare insurance coverage in a private market that will surely price them out of it. This would transpire just when they are at their most vulnerable stage of their lives. The middle and lower classes will pay more to ensure that their social programs are not pulled out from under them. Everyone will have to pay more and have a little less. The wealthy will not be getting the tax breaks that Rep. Ryan proposes. They do not need them and they will only increase the wealth gap in our society. Fairness and shared sacrifice are the key phrases that I would use to characterize my long term budget plan. We are all in this great American society together. One for all and all for one. I know that all plans are tweaked and I am fully open to debate on all of my points. The key for me is that fairness and protection of all of our citizens is maintained. Maybe the tax code needs to be changed to stimulate more investment and job creation. Maybe there are more significant cuts that can be found without hurting our most vulnerable citizens too significantly. I hope my plan sparks a lively debate and yields some innovative new ideas. We have little time before our national debt swallows us up and we are put on a permanent road of economic backwardness. Please implore your elected representatives to compromise and come up with a fair and effective plan to balance our national budget now. Time is running out for not only us but for generations to come.
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (6)
- Funny (1)
- Awesome (5)
- Beautiful
- Interesting (1)
CommentsLoading...
Thanks TeaPartyCrasher. You can post it wherever you like. I appreciate it. What is FB?
FaceBook.
Yeah sorry. I finally realized it was Facebook soon after. Feel free to post it there.
Fiscal responsibility and social compassion is what you are saying and I completely agree. We need to start looking at a few things here. First, Anti-trust laws are in place to make sure corporations do not control to much of the economy. When they do, they are "Too big to fail". This is unacceptable. By using anti-trust laws, which are there to make sure that corporations do not control prices and the flow of goods, our country can create many more businesses and jobs that will in turn make competition. This will generate revenue immediately. Secondly, the loopholes, need to be sealed. No more tax breaks for the fully armed corporations who want the tax payers to fund their ambitions. Thirdly, the subsidies(cronyism) needs to be corrected. It's bad enough that individual business owners have been wiped from the market, but to let the corporations receive a handout afterwards is intolerable. As far as national defense is concerned, I believe we need to bring our troops home and start guarding our nation. There is far too much turmoil for our troops to be away in lands that do not want us there. If nations want help, it should always be joint operations with other nations that agree that intervention is appropriate. I also agree that corruption and waste must be looked into(cronysim) Now that fiscal responsibility has been addressed, let us look at social compassion. Social compassion commands us to enable the indefensible, defensible (social safety net). How can we allow legislation that would basically eliminate individuals from being deleted? How long will it take before these two parties can agree on saving this country? To put their differences aside and do the right thing. This next election(2012) must be a resounding show of disapproval of the direction the House of Representatives are proposing. The voters must take a stand this election and refute the TEA party agenda.
Dear HSchneider,
Your plan makes so much sense and would not place undue hardship on any one particular group of people. Increasing the Medicare and Social Security withholding tax is an idea that has been proposed before and I really don't understand the pushback against it. Seems fair to me- maybe that is what is wrong with it. Fair doesn't seem to get too many fans...
As for waste and fraud in Medicare and Medicaid, there is probably far more than your estimate. Much of reining that in would require a change in the billing programs currently in use by CMS for Medicare and whatever program the states are using for Medicaid. Crosschecking for utilization could deter overuse of services.
For awhile, the FBI was cracking down on Medicare fraud, then with the "War on Terror", things like that took a back seat. They need to come front and center again. So much abuse! I have seen millions and millions myself.
Great article! As usual! Thank you!
Wil C, I totally agree with you that we must protect individuals. Some people simply lose out within the competition of our marketplace and they must be helped. The elderly need the assistance of Medicare to make sure that they can obtain healthcare. I would also like corporations to be smaller by way of our anti-trust laws but it may not be easy to achieve. There are huge corporations from other countries competing against them. This is especially true in the finanancial services area. We would have to work with the other countries of the world to achieve this. Amen to 2012. The Democrats would sweep elections if this were November 2012 now. We must keep up the enthusiasm and the energy to attack the cruel Republican and Tea Party policies.
Thank you Jillian. I tried to come up with figures that I considered reasonable for cleaning up waste and fraud in these programs. I usually used 10%. I never realized that it was much more. Thank you for using your expert experience in setting me straight on this. I believe the Medicare cuts in the Healthcare Reform bill are supposed to deal with a lot of things you mention. Hopefully they do and not just pay lip service to it. Changing the emphasis from "Fees For Service" to "Fees For Outcomes" should also cut costs dramatically.
I absolutely agree. Going forward with Ryan's plan or one similar would make no sense to the average American. We would all see this country go the way of the Titanic. Where only the rich and powerful have life vests.
Thank you for your comments iMilton. The Ryan plan is incomprehensible to me. It is so cruel and uncaring. Raising the withholding taxes that have been untouched for decades while making some cuts seems to be the sensible and compassionate way to go.
But isn't Ryan's plan Supposed to make sure only the rich survive? It is a plan to save precious resources which, BTW, Will be not so plentiful in about five years. I suppose we don't die fast enough for them so they devise plans to help us die quicker. Good hub.
An amazingly thorough look at an extraordinarily complicated topic...I'm impressed...Gotta read it a few times more to digest it all. Thanks
You've got it exactly right Bobbi. That's why I entitled this "Path to Survival of the Fittest" instead of Ryan's "Path to Prosperity. It's the prosperity of the rich for Ryan and the rest of the Republicans. Thanks for commenting.
Thank you very much THAT Mary Ann. I wanted to write about my disgust with Rep. Ryan's plan but I felt it would be stronger and more valid if I thought about what plan I would like to see. This is the type of fair plan that makes the most sense to me. Also my plan actually comes close to balancing the budget. His isn't even close because he cuts taxes for the wealthy and corporations.
Extraordinary ideas here, I think you are too kind to the military industrial complex,(that either makes me an Eisenhower Republican or a dangerous passivist)The money we spend to police the world is a true obscenity. What are we protecting Europe from? We fund unneeded wars and military bases around the world yet Republicans wants to cut services for the poor and elderly while giving tax breaks to the wealthy
Thank you Chefsref. I was trying to be as realistic as I could with my budget ideas and estimates. The power of the military complex in this country is enormous so I only put in cuts that I thought were somewhat feasible, Now if I had put together a budget that was my true wish list, it would have been much different. The only troops we need in Europe right now are the ones we contribute to NATO. I would also have included higher taxes and more investment in education, alternative renewable energy, and other projects that would create jobs of the future. I'll have to save those for when the budget is actually balanced and the economy is prospering.
This is an indepth article and I commend you for taking the time to provide you input on the budget proposals. I agree with several of your points and some I do not. To begin you mentioned the position of repealing the new healthcare law. I agree that it should not be repealed. It is a proven fact there are problems with it and this is the focus that should take place to fix the unintended errors or problems identified after it became law.
You also had some great suggestions on addressing making changes to bring more income into the treasury. Examples included raising the raising the medicare withholding tax which should be considered to aid in the deficit this program is anticipated to have in the future.
Another point I wish to make for which I am in agreement with you is there is a reluctance to address critical issues that have an impact on our budget deficit.
There are a couple of point on which I disagree. First I want to say that I am an independent and vote for the person that best addresses my viewpoint on major issues. One of the suggestions you mentioned was to let the Bush tax cuts expire. I feel this would be a mistake and even President Obama feels they should remain except for the high income taxpayers. Raising taxes is not the right way to address the deficit we are encountering. The problem is not with our tax level but our spending level in relation to our income.
You also mentioned some points in relation to Democratic programs and Republican programs. Both parties need to refrain from making issues into a political situation. Addressing the budget deficits should not be about what either political party wants but what is needed. Neither side will get everything they want. Hard decisions need to be made now not years from now. Granted there are differences in the philosophy between each party in addressing budget problems but there are areas on which they agree. Both parties need to formalize the points on which they agree and work to get a compromise on the issues. In compromising one point must be clear. Any final legislation must have substantial decisions to address the issues and put us back on a fiscally sound economically policy. Hard decisions will need to be made and we as citizens will not like some of them.
Both political parties must refrain from whether an issues is popular with the voters who elected them but whether the decisions are the right ones to make.
One last point to make is that the effort you put into the content of this article is exemplary. The manner in which you brought your points to the table was excellent.
Hello, HS, ever consider running for office? The major theme is that the ryan Plan includes rightwing ideological principle that is dead on arrival in regards to approval by the progressive side. The president when addressing the issue clearly said that reveunue enhancement must be part of the package. This is well in line with your proposal that speaks of budget cuts and tax increases, elimination of wasteful subsidies. The GOP solution seems to punish the most vulnerable. Is it not true that congress has been using SS as a piggy bank and that is part of the reason for the fund's so called shortfall? Great Hub, truly scholarly, thanks muchly...
Good morning Schneider:
I was thrilled to discover you had written something and I was not disappointed. The fact that you have laid out sensible solutions in such a clear and concise manner, to me only underscores that fact that the fix isn't difficult...it's the politics that get in the way.
One has to wonder why the rich are not expected to make a contribution to the welfare of this country. Then again, as one Senator put it, "if we continue to tax the rich, they'll leave." As it is, they only seem to be taking up space anyway, so who cares?
Finally, I have an excellent idea too...you should run for the Senate. You'd have my vote.
up/useful and awesome
We might need to wait until ‘we are ALL in this together’ before we can expect, "Fairness and shared sacrifice", Mr HSchneider.
However, more power to your fingertips.
Thank you for your comments Dennis. I am glad to see we are in agreement on so many points. Unfortunately my largest deficit closer is the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. I do not mind finding more sensible cuts but I doubt we can find much more. The only other ways to raise revenues are to raise the entitlements taxes even higher or raise the gas tax. I feel these would be totally unpalatable at this point in time. One other way is to totally overhaul the tax code and allow the result to bring a lot more revenue into the Treasury. I am for this attempt but it would probably take a lot of time to develop. President Obama would like to only allow the Bush tax cuts to expire for those earning $250 million or more. This was his campaign promise and I'm fine with it but we still need more. These cuts benefited the rich so much more that their expiration would not hurt the middle and lower classes much. I appreciate your going through all of my points and I am interested in hearing what other cuts or revenue raisers you would include.
Credence2, You are absolutely correct that the main theme is that the Paul Ryan plan and all GOP emphasis is cutting programs for the working class and giving additional tax breaks to the wealthy and Corporate America. The elderly will be totally pushed out of Healthcare with the Ryan voucher program. You are also correct that Congress has been raiding Social Security and leaving basically IOU bonds in the fund. It is time to replenish this plan and the others and put them back on to the path of fiscal sanity. I hope against hope that both sides get together and solve this problem from all directions not just spending or just taxes. As for running for office, I have this thing where I hate selling my soul to achieve a goal. I think that would pretty much rule me out for a campaign run unless I want to play Don Quixote. Thank you for your kind comments.
Thank you Fay for your encouraging comments. I will have to refer you to the comments I made above to Credence2 in regards to a Senate run. I would also have no money to run because I would refuse to promise anything even vaguely to anyone. Look at where that got Russ Feingold in Wisconsin in this toxic political environment. You are right that solving the budget deficit is not all that complicated but the politics is a minefield. The political posturing everyday is nauseating especially with 24 hour TV news coverage. As for the of taxing the rich, I am simply returning the tax code to the Clinton era where everything ran wonderfully and in balance. Besides, we are the least taxed developed industrial nation. The wealthy have rode the gravy train for this past decade and the wealth gap in this country proves it.
I fear you may be correct Amillar. Serious budget balancing may not occur until after the 2012 Presidential election. I hope that will not be too late. I hope this budget process works better in your country than mine. Thanks for your comments.
HSchneider
Check this link for the facts about Ryan's Medicare plan.
Ryan and Van Hollen Debate Medicare Proposals 6/3/11
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/06/03/ryan-and-van-
ONLY ON FOXNEWS CAN YOU WITNESS THE REAL THING!
Jon, I watched this debate and it did not change my opinions at all. I rarely watch FOX news because it is so slanted to the right that it has become a mouthpiece for the Republican party. I watched this because it would be a stark contrast between leaders of both sides. It did not disappoint. The Republicans are all walking in lockstep now looking to dismantle all social safety net programs, unions, and any group vaguely leaning left. The Koch Brothers fund this behind the scenes conspiracy. Rep. Ryan's plan is the culmination of this. He tries to cloak his plan as saving Medicare but he is transferring costs to the working class. The elderly will be priced out of the market very quickly. The healthcare insurance companies do not want to insure them. Period. Thank you for commenting.
HSchneider
''The Republicans are all walking in lockstep now looking to dismantle all social safety net programs, unions, and any group vaguely leaning left''. '' He tries to cloak his plan as saving Medicare but he is transferring costs to the working class. ''
Jon, I think your comments got cut off. You were quoting me from my last comment and then nothing was written. Please feel free to finish your comment and I'll be happy to reply.
Jon:
You quote from H is likley the most honest thing about the 'Tea Party' you've ever said.
Be interesting to see what corporate spin you put on it. . .
Lots of great research here. Now lets share with the gang on Hill. One good thing about the Ryan Plan, it really opened up some eyes. Now a few of the Tea Party crowd see they have been mislead. Some of these red communities are turning blue.
You are right Mimi. The polls have turned dramatically against the Republicans. I am glad that people are finally seeing what they stand for. It began with the Wisconsin union busting. Now it is important that the Democrats come up with a credible plan. I tried to do it here. Unfortunately a lot of the Democrats are lacking political courage and are sitting back. I feel they should devise a wise plan and then sell it vigorously. They created the Healthcare Reform bill and let the GOP and the Tea Party demogogue it with no response. Thank you for your comments.
Hschneider
''The Republicans are all walking in lockstep now looking to dismantle all social safety net programs, unions, and any group vaguely leaning left''. '' He tries to cloak his plan as saving Medicare but he is transferring costs to the working class. ''
Ryan’s plan does nothing to existing Medicare until 2021, everything is status quo. Explain ‘’transferring cost ……class.
Obamacare- cuts immediately $500 billion from Medicare , reduces pay to doctors and hospitals and sets a limit each year on what the government will ( that all happens now and in 2012) spend. Wake up to rising premium costs, who do you think make up the difference when the government cuts repayments, a fairy god mother ?
Suggest you take another look at the debate, it was a good debate for starters.
Ps The plans to appoint a government panel to make the decisions are being put in place ,right now ahead of 2014.
sorry about the cut off!
Jon, The Medicare cost cuts are not immediate. They begin now but are over the course of 10 years. Not all savings are in re-payments. Much of it is in how we reimburse doctors and hospitals. This is in fee for results and not fee for services. This is a change long overdue. This will not start till 2014. Every healthcare insurance company has a panel or group that passes judgement over what to reimburse and what not to. These decisions can also be appealed and often are. These government groups will do the same and probably will be more responsive to doctors appeals. Please do not revive the ridiculous death panel debate.
HSchneider
A COMMENT I WROTE some time ago
COMMENTS :
The US Government is PRESENTLY the largest healthcare insurance provider in the WORLD. They manage Medicare, Medicaid, the VA(veterans administration ) and Ships ( for children ).
The US DENYING services is 8.5% and is #1
Etna is #2 at 6.0% denial
Obama is chastising the insurance companies for denying insurance coverage when it's our government LEADING the world.THAT'S A FACT.
Both Democrat and Republican members of Congress agree that the denial of pre existing conditions need to be fixed. Despite what the Obama Congress is saying about the insurance companies, note that their profit margins are between 2% and 4%. That is not a lot considering that the government taxes company profits.
INSURANCE COSTS ARE GOING UP ,NOT DOWN AS OBAMA STATED.
If you understood the debate, one can make a decision on what the plan is all about.
Jon, I am not going to debate the Healthcare Reform Act with you again. We did that months ago and anyone who wants to see the debate we conducted can read the comments on my Hub "Healthcare Reform - Reject or Perfect? Jillian Barclay made a detailed and masterful refutation of the facts as you saw them and which you repeated here. She is an expert who has worked in that field for years and I am sure she has a better handle on it than you. My debate is on the broader budget and my alternative to Ryan's draconian changes and gutting of our social safety net system. He also cuts taxes for the wealthy at the same time and does not even nearly balance the budget. His plan is cruel conservative doctrinaire claptrap. Please feel free to debate me on my plan if you wish not just the Healthcare Reform Act. I would also love to hear your plans for actually bringing the budget into balance.
HSchneider
''Jillian Barclay made a detailed and masterful refutation of the facts as you saw them ''
DO YOU HAVE A LINK TO THE ARTICLE? I WOULD LOVE TO READ IT.
Jon, Go to my Hub:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Healthcare-Reform-Reject-o
Then go to the comments towards the end. You and Jillian had a short debate on the exact statistics you presented to me in your earlier comments.
Jon, I am sorry. When I type out the full address it gets cut off. The address I gave has -or-Perfect at the end. Otherwise go to my site HSchneider here on HubPages and click on my Healthcare Reform - Reject or perfect? Hub. Thank you.
HSchneider
I received a reply from Jillian.
Thanks for the lead, she watched the video.
Your welcome Jon.
HSchneider
Check out her hub. She gave me a review of who I am.
Jon,
Which Hub title is that?
It is : http://hubpages.com/hub/Ryan-To-Dems-Quit-Your-Dem
Sorry to interfere, but have been watching...
Thank you Jillian. I did read the dialogue between you and Jon in the comments of your Hub. I do not mind Jon's criticisms and comments but I do wish he would address my Hub and balancing the budget and not do a re-hash of our Healthcare Reform debate. Save that for that Hub. Thank you for the Progressive Congressional Budget Balancing Bill website. I like the bill. It's the polar opposite of Ryan's bill so they both are dead. Maybe our politicians can negotiate and meet in the middle. No, I'm not smoking something.
HSchneider
‘’Jon, I am not going to debate the Healthcare Reform Act with you again.’’
The 2012 budget includes healthcare reform issues.
The Ryan 2012 budget
The House passed a bill on Jan.19,2011 that repeals Obamacare. by a vote of 245 to 189, with 3 Democrats crossing the aisle.
The bill, H.R. 2, will now go to the Senate, where Democrat Majority Leader Harry Reid has promised to block any attempt to roll back the law.
http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/01/19/
The Ryan plan does not cut Medicare costs and or doctors reimbursements as did Obamacare. The House budget plan was the first step in arriving at a 2012 budget. Until the Senate and President Obama present their budgets nothing will happen to approve a 2012 budget.
One should wonder why the Democrats haven’t yet produced a budget plan . Obama has stated he will not sign a bill that repeals Obamacare. With 2/3s of the government controlled by the Democrats, ( since 2007 ) the Ryan Bill appears to be an exercise in futility at this time.
The 2011 budget was not approved by the majority Democrat Congress and President Obama until 4 months into the budget year. To reveal to the American public that 2011 produced another $1.5 trillion deficit prior to the 2010 election was not in the best interest of the controlling party. The preliminary Obama 2012 budget was for another 1.4 trillion deficit. The polls reflect that the people do not want to raise the national debt limits above $14.3 trillion. No one has reported that the nation has a $50 trillion debt in unfunded liabilities.
A side note ,during the Bush tax cut years, the US treasury had record tax deposits.
Jon, Yes, The Ryan plan does call for the repeal of the Healthcare Reform plan and this aspect we have debated. I feel it is a flawed but necessary first step. Ryan feels this will cut the deficit and I disagree. It is budget neutral. I have no desire to debate our disagreements on this aspect further here. You can do that on my Healthcare Reform Hub. I do agree with you that The President and the Senate need to deliver plans. The Senate I believe is waiting for the President. The problem they have though is that the Republicans are irresonibly tying this to raising the debt limit. Thus the President has no time to deliver his desired plan because it would be swatted down immediately by the grandstanding House Republicans. So Vice President Biden is working out a plan with all sides in private that they hope will pass. The Republicans are criminal for holding the stellar credit rating of this country hostage. Now those are the political posturing points that both sides are guilty of. Now Jon, do you wish to debate my plan that I have offered here and do you have a plan? Beyond wanting Healthcare Reform repealed I have heard nothing from you other than carping at the Democrats public inaction. Though not private inaction. This is easy to do. Please present a plan or at least an outline. Thank you.
Bless you Schneider for being so patient. The Republicans filibustered the 2011 budget. President Obama presented a 2012 budget, all you have to do is go online and look at it. It really doesn't matter what the President thinks, the allocation of funding is the authority of the House. This is one big political game.
The Healthcare plan was deficit neutral, Ryan Care is a voucher system under a plan that increases the debt and doesn't balance the budget for 40 years. All the hysteria about healthcare is silly. Especially since insurance companies are trying to get out of the business altogether.
What US Treasury reported record revenues during Bush? That has to be a misread. And God forbid the day we start to legislate according to polling. Clearly, the citizens are just not informed enough.
Until people can set partisanship aside and tackle matters based on facts and merit, debate really is a waste of time.
Our government needs to set partisanship aside Fay. I believe Vice President Biden's group is attempting this because the raising of the debt limit is at stake. One of the major problems as I see it is the GOP refusal to raise taxes at all. Thanks alot Grover Norquist. The Obama administration will not allow our social safety net to be repealed or privatized and rightfully so. Cuts need to be made to some degree across the board but taxes need to be raised also. The GOP need to learn the words fairness and compassion.
I'll add one more...compromise.
Compromise would be nice also Fay. I just saw a news report that the Republicans on the Biden Debt Commission are refusing to address tax hikes at all. How do you get to a balanced budget that way without destroying the middle and lower classes of this country?
Nice and interesting hub which is well shared.
Thank you for your kind comments Sun-Girl.
Fay Paxton /HSchneider
‘’The Republicans filibustered the 2011 budget. President Obama presented a 2012 budget, all you have to do is go online and look at it. ‘’
THE FACTS prior to Nov.2011 the Democrats controlled the House, Senate and the Presidency .The Dems had a super majority control of government and the only thing the Republicans did was show up for work, blaming the Republicans ( party of no ) is ridiculous.
The Obama preliminary budget had a $1.6 deficit, it was rejected by the Senate and the House. In addition it was vague and incomplete.
Here we go again, the Senate waiting, the President working on a resubmit and nothing getting done by 2/3s of our government.
A RECENT ARTICLE IN THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC OPINIONS SECTION 5/18/11
A fact , this year the federal government will have to BORROW $90 billion to make up the difference between what payroll taxes bring in and benefits that are paid for Social Security and Medicare.
NOTE, if you WERE WORKING ,Uncle Sam gave you a break by lowering the tax.
The fund trustees projected the federal government will have to BORROW $355 billion to pay Social Security benefits and $178 billion to pay hospitalization costs under Medicare.
Medicare will cost the general treasury about $3 trillion thru the rest of the decade. And that the trustees say, is probably a GROSS underestimation, since it is based on enacted COST-SAVINGS unlikely to stick - SUCH AS CUTTING DOCTORS’FEES NEARLY 30 %. Note , OBAMA CARE cuts Medicare $500 billion , health providers AND OTHERS. Question, will your doctor work for nothing?
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH!
Jon, What is your plan? You heckle all sides but I hear no ideas. My guess is that you would eliminate all social programs and allow the elderly and the poor to suffer. Of course, this is just a guess because you offer nothing but sniping. Also the past 2 years the Senate filibustered everything. The result was that all legislation got watered down by the GOP obstructionists. Finally the doctors and hospitals jack up the prices for everything so they are not getting slighted. They get paid plenty for Medicare. Please present me a plan instead of only complaining. Good or bad, I came up with a plan. Thank you.
H:
They can't. Wht do you think all you hear from them is 'Repeal', never any ideas on what to 'replace' with.
Of course, the corps haven't figured that out yet
HSchneider
I have no control over a budget that you, Congress or Obama proposes.The solutions are simple, don't spend more than the government takes in.DON'T RAISE THE NATIONAL DEBT LIMITS,there are sufficient funds coming into the treasury to pay the debtors.
Nothing will work until the PRESIDENT AND THE SENATE DECIDE TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH.
TPC, I know. I have put out a plan. I figured I would debate those who thought I was wrong and consider their ideas. Some want deeper cuts and less tax raises. I cannot argue with those who just say everything is wrong with no alternatives.
Jon, None of us has control over the budget when we are not in the federal government. We do have the ability to formulate our own ideas and convey them and advocate for them. That is what being an active citizen is all about. I put out a plan that raised taxes and made cuts. Your simple yelling at the politicians from the rafters without alternative ideas is not useful. My plan brings in more revenue and lessens expenditures and should balance the budget or at least come close. What do you feel about my plan and why? Beyond repeal everything, you have not explained. Would you raise taxes while making cuts? I do not know what you are for beyond throwing everyone out of government and ripping up the budget.
Hschneider
YOU HAVE A TERRIFIC PLAN. Send the plan to Senator Reid and President Obama, they need help to furnish a budget that can be debated with the Ryan budget that already has been voted down in the Senate.
$750 million has been spent in Libya, a Brazilian oil company was given $2 billion and a permit to drill in the gulf, Egyptian rebels were given $ millions and $50 million was given to ????? to build a secret internet system with another $10 million more. The system is being used in Syria by revolutionaries.
IN 2000 FEDERAL REVENUES EQUALED ALMOST 21%OF GDP. In 2009 revenues plunged to 15% of GDP. This year further down to 14.4% while spending soared to 25.3% of GDP.All of the above yielded the federal deficit of $1.6 trillion, the highest ever.
Just a reminder, Congress approves the spending limits with the Presidents approval.
Interesting that 2/3s of our government hasn’t yet submitted a 2012 budget.
Jon, Vice President Biden is working with a bi-partisan team of legislators to come up with a budget compromise. The reason he is doing this is because the Far Rightwingnuts are threatening to not raise the debt limit which will cripple this country's economy. They now do not have the time to produce another budget the regular way. It must be done now behind the scenes or the GOP will blow everything up. What the Republicans are doing is a travesty? Now Jon, my Hub is not meant to be a critique of the budget process or what the Dems and the GOP are doing to get a budget. It is meant to be on my budget. Please write a Hub about your ideas that the President and the Dems are not producing a budget if that is how you feel. Please stop using my Hub as a forum for that. You obviously love to throw out mounds of statistics as if they were ideas. They are not. They are simply statistics and all sides have them. I want to deal in ideas on how to solve the problems. Thank you.
Jon, I thought I was the only one unlucky enough to be constantly harassed by you. Obviously, your obsession knows no bounds.
It is apparent Schneider does not mind having an exchange with you, nor do I. The problem is, you don't deal with the subject at hand. Besides, you analysis which constantly points to "the first time ever" does not take into account that this is "the first time ever" for many of the problems we face. Of course, we have had recessions and high unemployment before, but this is the first one complicated by global failures. We do not operate in a vacuum anymore.
Your financial analysis is idiotic, at best. Revenues can't increase if people are unemployed and the government keeps giving tax cuts. In case you hadn't noticed, we are at war. The GDP was well over 100% during World War II and we are still here. Revenue would be generated by jobs...you know the ones the Republicans kept crowing about. Well, where are the jobs? Get a grip for crissakes. The Republicans have control of the purse strings, so a budget is their problem.
Schneider has merely offered up a compilation of his budgetary ideas. You should write a hub about yours and cease with this madness. It's impolite.
Thank you Fay.
Sorry I'm getting here so late. What a great hub! You put a lot of research and thought into this and I couldn't agree with you more. What a radical idea of looking at the largest 3 budget items first, ha ha. You could easily trim 10% from the defense budget, easily.
We need to draw down the number of troops in Germany, Japan, etc. We also need to take a close look at the Barney Frank/Ron Paul proposed cuts to defense. Regarding your comment on social security threshold, can you explain that? I think you are saying that people only pay social security on their first 106k of income? So if I make $1mil, I only pay social security on 106k of my income and not the other 900k?
Thank you for your kind comments LRC. You are correct about the Social Security income threshold. You are only taxed for Social Security up to $106,800 of your income. After that you are not taxed at all for Social Security purposes. It makes sense to me to raise this threshold for both inflation purposes and for baby boomer retirement purposes. Also defense needs to be cut sharply and our troops need to be brought home. I wouldn't do it all at once but in stages. The savings will be enormous if that is done.
Your hub reminded me of the movie 'Dave' - I don't know if you've seen it, but a stand in for the President does some quick budget work much like you've done here, both cases very impressive.
Of course, being Canadian, your proposed changes would have no direct impact on me, however, your centrist methodology is refreshing and no doubt would appeal to a large percentage of Americans. Too bad it doesn't appeal to any of the people who are in a position to make the kind of decisions you propose.
I have seen the movie "Dave". I appreciate the comparison and I also appreciate your calling my methodology centrist. Most of the politicians in this country would consider it to be at the very least Liberal if not downright Socialist. The Democrats in my country have allowed the conservative Republicans to hijack the narrative of the political dialogue in the U.S. and this is very sad to me. I feel my budget sensibly protects our social safety net while making common sense tax raises and budget cuts. I wish my country had more of the philosophy of taking care of their people that Canada does.
Thanks for clarifying regarding social security threshold. Regarding cuts to the defense/pentagon budget, I agree with you. I think some cuts could be made immediately but the larger and longer term savings is permanent cuts over a period of time. Again, really great hub.
Fay Paxton
Oh, you finally woke up! ‘Your financial analysis is idiotic, at best. Revenues can't increase if people are UNEMPLOYED’’
‘’The Republicans have control of the purse strings, so a budget is their problem. ’’the DEMOCRATS can’t come up with a budget for 2012. The Republicans haven’t had control of the purse strings as of Jan 2007. THAT’S A FACT!
CHECK IT OUT the approved healthcare bill is not deficit neutral, the CBO got the CORRECT #‘S NOW and revised their report!
HSchneider
With due respect, please stop making excuses for our politicians in Washington. The 2012 budget and the National Debt are priority and yet 2/3s of our government can’t come up with a budget. There is only 1 budget on the table now, it was rejected by the Senate, they are holding up the process. Obama’s budget was voted down by the Senate 97-0, are you aware of that? Obama has not yet submitted a revised budget. The budget he submitted had a $1.6 trillion deficit, Obama is asking to raise the national debt limits another $2.5 trillion. There is enough money coming in to service the national debt. The interest on the National Debt is $8 billion a day, insane to believe we want to raise the debt LIMITS.
Jon, the GOP budget (Ryan Budget) is dead on arrival. A compromise must be worked out between the opposing sides. I suspect that the GOP is playing with this debt ceiling thing for political points. The president has made it clear that whatever is worked out WILL include revenue enhancement and that everything is on the table, no draconian cuts on entitlement and no sacred cows. When the GOP can recognise this maybe then we can seriously negotiate.
Credence2
BIG TROUBLE AHEAD.RYAN'S budget repeals OBAMACARE.Obama has already said that he will not sign a budget BILL that repeals his healthcare plan.
Your welcome LRC. The military complex needs to be put under control for the long term and all the special interests that sustain it must be kept at bay. This includes the defense contractors, Congressmen, and the military brass.
Jon, I am not coming up with excuses. I resent that comment. I am telling you the facts on the ground with the Biden group. You cannot let go of your constant sniping at everyone in government. That is what sustains you. You offer no constructive solutions.
Credence2, Both sides are working behind the scenes in the Biden group. I have been hearing the GOP giving in a little and I think they are talking about reforming the tax code. They don't have much time. I hope the Obama Administration sticks to their guns and include both revenue enhancement along with spending cuts. They must not cave on this. Republican support in the country is much weaker and they must stop acting like they and the Tea Party are political giants. They are not.
HSchneider
'' I resent that comment'' sorry but the truth will come out in time. Well, let's call it what it is '' INCOMPETENCE''.
KEEP HUBBING AND HAVE A GOOD DAY.
Jon, You are right. The truth will come out. We will see that the Obama Administration has been working hard behind the scenes to stop the GOP from driving this economy off the debt ceiling cliff.
Great hub. I would just like to add that the Ryan Plan ignores the fact that Medicare came about because private insurance companies would not cover senior citizens. He also ignores the fact that many Baby Boomers will be particularly dependent on Social Security because they lost their retirement savings on Wall Street. Creating the private retirement accounts he proposes indicates a political tone deafness I can't even begin to comprehend.
You are absolutely right Brages. The healthcare insurance companies will price thye elderly out of the market because they do not want them. A voucher will do them no good. Social Security works fine. They just need to raise the income threshold. It is not even close to running out of money anyhow. Private retirement accounts are subject to market whims. The elderly need steady security. Thanks for you excellent comments.
I am greatly fearful of where this country is heading with these debt ceiling negotiations. Both for the fact that the Tea party wing of the GOP want to take this economy over a cliff into a Depression, and also because I fear that only social programs will be cut unfairly without substantial revenue raisers which are needed.
HSchneider
Check out this hub
President Barack Obama and The 112TH Congress
Republican House approved a Cut ,Cap and Balance bill, on July,19,2011
Jon, The Cut, Cap, and Balance bill was a hastily placed together piece of legislation that had only one purpose. That was to attempt to force the President's hand while at the point of a gun. This proverbial gun is the debt limit ceiling. This piece of trash seeks to artificially perform what Congress should do themselves. That is to write a budget. It seeks to impose this Congress's will on all others that follow no matter what economic conditions exist. This is unacceptable and I praise the Senate for tabling it. The cuts are draconian as well as the cap. Future Congresses should have the flexibility to address the future through budgetary choices they wish to make. Not the choices that this reactionary group feels they should impose, in their infinite wisdom, on future legislatures. Is it not enough that the President is compromising far beyond what he wishes to at the hands of this blackmailing GOP House of representatives? The debt ceiling issue should not be tied the budget talks at all.
Do you think whatever Republican that runs for Prez will embrace Ryans COUPON Plan? Knowing Ameicans do NOT want it and in NY we got back a very red district due to the Republican running endorsing Ryans plan. If they do, Obama will clean their clocks.
It depends on what candidate wins the Republican nomination. Mitt Romney will fudge the issue and be on both sides. He has honed that talent very well. Bachmann and Perry will probably embrace it because they will run hard right. Their political operatives will try to have them use a little nuance with the subject. Both are morons though so it will not work. You are right, if they do embrace it, President Obama will win easily. Thank you for your comments PoliticsNOW.
Politics NOW
''Truth seeker and I am tired of the lies from Washington.''
Obama said today '' buy American''. The $1.1 million black bus that taxpayers paid for was made in Canada.
Obama will raise $1 trillion for his 2012 presidential campaign. Friends of Obama, Warren Buffet says that millionaires, billionaires and the so-called rich should pay more taxes. Maybe Mr. buffet would help the people first by putting more people to work in his companies. Some politicians believe if your taxes are lower and you have a job, more money in your pocket is better than sending the money to Washington so that they can cover the costs of food stamps and ’’ a living wage ’’ unemployment checks.
Do you think that Obama will reimburse the American taxpayer for the costs of his campaign use of air travel, security and hotel expenses for the past few months and future expenses?
‘’tired of the lies from Washington’’, there is only one person from Washington that is talking and telling half truths that resides in Washington that is seen daily in the news and on the tv news shows.
Is it who I believe it must be ????
Jon, You are an incessant Obama hater. Nothing will change your mind and I will not attempt to. The President is not perfect but he is trying. The Republicans are now a stone wall which he is up against. There is very little he can do to move this economy and I place the blame for that squarely on the corporate owned Tea Party faction of the GOP. They are the villains in this drama.
BLAH BLAH BLAH JON! Where are the JOBS by the HOUSE OWNED BY THE RIGHT? Stop with the distractions. Hate Obama all you want I don't care. You can't reason with the tea party BOTTOMLINE. I will be glad to purge the congress of you idiots in the future. You want money back ask BUSH for the TRILLIONS he spent on tax cuts while LOSING 8 MILLION JOBS! All the while going on VACATION for almost 500 days!
CUT CRAP and BALANCE asks only the poor, old and sick to sacrifice while we BORROW money from CHINAand give it to the rich in the form of tax cuts. Stop pandering to the RICH Corporate SCUM!
I find it PATHETIC the tea party cheers when we get a downgrade during a JOBS crisis and then asks Obama, where are the JOBS? Well baggers you have 100 idiots in the house so draft a jobs bill. We know you don't want that jon. If jobs are created then Obama will look good. You want to debate anymore? I have plenty to say.
HSchneider
'' The President is not perfect but ''
Only time will tell.
President Obama announced that after Labor Day he will present his plan for a recovery.When his plan is submitted, will it conform to the pay-go laws that he signed in 2010?.
2/13/10 2:04 PM EST
President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go budget legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a
destructive pattern of overspending. “Now, Congress will have to pay for what it spends, just like everybody
else,” Obama said in his radio and Internet address released Saturday morning. “After a decade of profligacy, the American people are tired of
politicians who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk when it comes to fiscal responsibility. It’s easy to get up in front of the cameras and rant against exploding deficits. What’s hard is actually getting deficits under
control. But that’s what we must do
President Barak Obama promised open and transparent government. Where is the 2011 BUDGET Mr. President. What is the hold up in next years spending budget?
The PAYGO compels new spending or tax changes to not add to the federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under the PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"
or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint. The interest on the national debt is $1 billion a day and rising. The unfunded liabilities of the country is $104 trillion.
Jon,
The President needs to jumpstart this economy because corporate America is sitting on a hoard of cash and not hiring. I do not care a hoot about your constant drumbeat about the balanced budget. You are a Johnny One-Note. I hope he takes many of my ideas to balance the budget and stimulate it at the same time. We must make moves to create jobs or spur companies to do so. Regardless the House will block everything because they simply want to block the President. Your incessant balance the budget mantra blocks out the needs of this country. You obviously have no compassion for the unemployed or this stuck in the mud economy.
To hell with the debt we HAVE A JOBS CRISIS. All of a sudden the REPUKES care about debt. Yea right PATHETIC jon.
Thank you PoliticsNOW. We do need the deficit cut but we also need a Jobs Stimulus bill now.
HSchneider
‘’The President needs to jumpstart this economy’’ NO, CONGRESS needs to work together and get the 2012 budget approved first.
Same old story with the President on jobs, jobs were a campaign promise. If people are not working, the treasury don’t have the money coming in to run the government. There is no more people left to blame as to his incompetence and inexperience.
One must understand what his intensions are to creating the destruction of the US Government.
Check this out to get a better understanding of who they really are in the Democratic party. The Democratic party has been taken over by radical groups, said a retired Senator .
Jon, The Republican party has been taken over by the Koch Brothers, Grover Norquist, and the Tea Party. They are the most radical Right major party of all time. The Democrats, especially President Obama, are capuitulating to spending cuts left and right. Are they radical because they want corporate tax breaks ended? If the budget is balanced immediately we will fall back into a deeper recession or worse. A long term plan to balance the budget over 10 years, like the one I proposed is proper, not immediate balancing. Your only issue is to balance the budget. You know no nuance. Are you for letting the Bush tax cuts to expire? I am. That will get us almost half way to balance. I ask this to see how serious you are about balancing the budget.
Plus JON the right has a record OVER 100 fillibusters in the ouse and Senate. Why would they BLOCK EVERYTHING? To make Obama FAIL. Obama can't wave a wand and create JOBS. Congress WRITES the checks. People just don't get it. The repukes and the teahags DON'T WANT JOBS!
PoliticsNow, Jon wants them to filibuster and block everything. That way no additional spending is passed. His only issue is balancing the budget, come Hell or high water. The effects on the people of the United States do not matter to him. He will just trot out his meaningless and arbitrary statistics.
One of the biggest republican lies they have sold to their votes is if you cut spending somehow jobs will be created. If Jon wants them to stop spending start with the Bush Tax cuts and oil subsidies. We have a Revenue problem. In times of economic hardships the government is there to help. That is what worked in the past. War and spending cuts won't help AT ALL.
Thank you PoliticsNOW. I have been preaching that for awhile. You are absolutely right. We have a revenue problem. There are spending cuts to be made but the major problem is revenues.
HSchneider
‘’We have a revenue problem’’--’’-the major problem is revenues’’
’’
Yes the government has a problem , maybe if the people were working ( 9.1% unemployment ),the treasury would get what Obama is preaching about ( REVENUE ). Obama has yet to mention reducing government and waste in government agencies doing duplicate work.
On Sat. Aug 19,2011, Obama remarked that he has 6 months of bad luck. One could believe that the terrorist ( tea party members of Congress ) were a part of his problems for the last 8 months.
Obama will submit a plan shortly .
Jon, Yes unemployment has caused a revenue problem. We agree. That is why he will come out with a Jobs plan in September. Yes, it will cost money. I wish he would have allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of 2010. Then our projected deficit would have been much less.
HSchneider
MY FRIEND, without a doubt you are a intelligent gentleman of whom I respect. The renewal of the Bush tax cuts was agreed to by President Obama and (note )the majority Democrat controlled Congress ( the House and the Senate )in the 2010 lame duck session.
Both sides have understood that increasing taxes in a recession is taboo. Think about it, business gets higher taxed so where does the money come from for companies to make more money. you're right, it all comes from the guy on the bottom. With 14 million guys on the bottom, without a job have more money to pay for higher prices. If a company makes no profit, where does the money come from to hire more people and/or invest in equipment ( buying equipment puts people to work ).
So, tell me in these troubled times would you prefer that the government takes more money (revenue ) or is it better for the money to remain in the private sector. The private sector that we know does create jobs. When companies make profit, that is good for everyone including the government (tax revenue to the people).
In 2008 candidate Obama pledged if elected he would turn the economy around and have a plan to produce jobs.
Almost 3 years into his term, he NOW will produce a job plan, what was the Stimulus Package all about?
That's your prerogative to follow or support him, there is an old saying,'' you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time ''.
‘’Then our projected deficit would have been much less.’’ NO, NOT REALLY
The deficit problems are government spending too much in the wrong places. The waste in the Stimulus spending is in the billions. The moratorium on oil drilling has cost the gulf cities millions and 100,000 jobs. Twice a federal judge ruled that the moratorium was unconstitutional. Obama and the government was held in contempt of court. The name of the game is JOBS AND REVENUE.
ANXIOUSLY AWAITING HIS PLAN IN SEPT.
Maybe the Senate will have a 2012 budget to go with his plan? Fiscal year 2012 begins Oct. 1,2011.
THE CBO ESTIMATES that the 2011 deficit will be $1.4 trillion .ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, the people deserve better than what he is serving in these troubled times. AMEN
Excuse me for the long reply.
Obama agreeded to the Bush tax cuts because RIGHT was willing to SCREW everyone if the rich did not get more tax breaks they don't need. STOP BLAMING OBAMA FOR YOUR SIDES POLICIES. That LIE DOES NOT WORK!
I am sure you know Jon Obama only had to SPEND because of BUSH screwed us all and now they want another texan NO, READ MY LIPS NO NEW TEXANS!
The Bush tax cuts have been in place for 10 years and HOW MANY JOBS did they create JON? NEGATIVE 8 MILLION! We spend 3 TRILLION of the taxpayer money and give it to the rich for WHAT? I see JON you are ok with spending to give it to the rich only typical RW NON-SENSE! This is why we can't take you seriously.
Jon, I want the wealth gap between the wealthy and the working class to stop growing exponentially. One major way to do this is to end the Bush Tax Cuts. They benefited the rich in a much, much greater fashion and the result is they are sitting on cash and hoarding it. Trickle down economics does not work. I want our social programs preserved and not destroyed as under Ryan's plan. The best way to do these things is through raising revenues.
PoliticsNOW, You are right. The GOP was holding a lot of important legislation hostage.
PoliticsNOW, You are right. The wealthy are sitting on this cash and not investing it. The Bush Tax Cuts ultimately destroyed this economy and created then exploded the deficit.
Great post..Thanks
Thank you HTodd.
Anyone who follows politics long enough develops a certain immunity towards cynicism. It becomes hard to be shocked or disappointed by the too often self-serving and hypocritical actions of our elected officials.
Unfortunately you are absolutely correct, PoliticsNOW. We must fight against this cynicism and continue to advocate for our issues and our candidates. Otherwise groups that are motivated like the Tea Party will have the upper hand. That happened in 2010 and we cannot allow that to happen again in 2012.
PoliticsNOW /HSchneider
President Obama and a super majority Democrat controlled Congress ( both the House and Senate, 100% control) from Jan 2009 to Sept 2010 passed a $ 787 billion Stimulus Package bill which has ballooned to $1 trillion today.
Today unemployment is 9.1% and the economy is not getting better.
So, tell the people the truth, because the President don’t tell the truth, where are the jobs that Obama promised in 2008,2009,2010 and 2011.
All that he reports, time and again, ‘’ I have a job plan. Everything that he proposes increases the size of government, and help to save public sector jobs. The PUBLIC sector jobs are paid for by the private sector taxpayers. Lack of people working in the private sector means that there is a shortage of revenue to feed the monster ( ALL government ).
As simple it is to those who understand how the system and economy works, more taxes on the people working and businesses don’t help the job market in a recession.
HSchneider
So the next time you hear President Obama say ‘’Congress is the problem ‘’why he can’t get his way , understand that he should be saying that the Senate isn’t doing the job. The Democrats have had 100% and 2/3’s control of our government since 2007 up to today. SPENDING AND GOVERNMENT WASTE IS THE MAIN PROBLEM!
DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video
Back in the black, the SOLUTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
Waiting with anxiety for the same old message.
Jon, Save your videos and links. I am not checking out your propaganda machine. The President has no power in the Congress. Sen. McConnell will wield his filibuster crap at anything that the President proposes. He has said and still maintains that his goal is the President's defeat in 2012. McConnell is pro-Republican and anti-American. The stimulus was needed in 2009 and should have been bigger but with less pork. The 2009 stimulus stopped us from falling further. We need spending cuts eliminating fraud, waste, and duplication. I agree. But we also need smart stimulus to fuel future industries, education, and infrastructure. So please stop with the links that simply provide your propaganda for cutting spending. I want nuanced change to spur growth not machete like mindless cutting.
HSchneider, You really have some great ideas in this hub, .....can't believe I'm telling YOU this! LOL!
I would only argue taxes, We have the highest corporate tax rate in the world! Enough, Families of 4 have to have both parents working to make ends meet! Enough! When my government stops spending 2.5 million dollars teaching prostitutes in china how to drink responsibly! And agrees to allow IBM to install programs that will save our country Billions and for FREE! ( I will never know what or why this wasn't done) and Billions and Billions in waste and fraud,..........whew!....then I might consider paying more in tax!......Not till then!
Thank you American Romance. I cannot believe you are giving me that compliment but I do appreciate it. I knew we would disagree about taxes. I truly wish the Bush Tax Cuts would be allowed to expire. Almost half the deficit would be solved and we could concentrate more on spending cuts. I am sure we disagree on that but that is my opinion on that. I think you might like some parts of another Hub I wrote which is sort of a sequel to this one. It is called "Are We Able To Grow The American Economy While Also Balancing The Budget". I have some ideas about giving business temporary Jobs Credits, Capital Gains Tax lowering, and other incentives for business to invest and hire now. We need to get that huge pile of cash off the sidelines and circulating in the economy now. People need to get back to work. That helps business owners and corporate executives also. More employed peoplemeans more money being spent. I argue for these incentives but only by making cuts or raising revenues elsewhere. I wrote it from the viewpoint of balancing the budget first and then stimulating with offsetting cuts.
HSchneider
‘’The President has no power in the Congress.’’ WHO do you think tells ( orders ) Senator Reid and Pelosi what to do. Remember all the secret meetings behind closed doors ?
The whole truth is not propaganda as you believe. President Obama appeared Sunday on a news program. Much of what he said was not what he has done in the past and present. There is a big difference between the whole truth and a ½ truth, apparently some have trouble finding out the difference.
‘’More employed people means more money being spent. I argue for these incentives but only by making cuts or raising revenues elsewhere’’
1.employed people paying taxes is REVENUE
2.more money being spent MEANS someone has a JOB
3.these incentives ARE WHAT YOU MEAN makes the economy grow.
4.only by making cuts or raising revenues elsewhere’’ that is the PAY-GO LAW, the Congress has passed it and the President has signed it into law.
President Obama will be presenting his job plan in Sept. Just wondering if he will remember to follow the PAY-GO law. Will it be the same old stuff, propaganda?
HAVE A GOOD DAY
PS your budget plan is dead on arrival unless President Obama gives a ok
Jon, You throw so many things out that conflict with each other. Don't you see the "Catch 22" you present. You hammer away with balancing the budget but also argue that putting people back to work will increase revenues. I agree that it will increase revenues but how do you advise doing this. Simply cutting spending will not increase jobs and it will probably hurt the economy in the short run. That will increase spending because unemployment is likely to rise. My plan in this Hub was to balance the budget and my next Hub had stimulus ideas to grow the economy but also offsetting them with cuts. Your ideas simply drill the economy more into the ground. What would you do budget wise besides bashing President Obama?
Jon you are incorrect the dems did NOT have 60 in the Senate in 2009. The Democrats held 57 seats it takse 60 to pass a bill SO STOP LYING JON IT HELPS NO ONE! I know this because my unemployment extensions were on the line and I was almost done with school at the time. We had 57 and had to get the 2 Senators from Maine to jump the isle. Plus Sanders and an ind. Then Senator Byrd died and they made millions wait while they replaced him. Please look it up. Since having a roof or not depended on it I watched closely.
Take off your Obama HATE glasses Please Jon.
I was in the same situation PoliticsNOW. It was a nerve wracking time and not assured that the unemployment benefits would be extended.
Fighting for the Millions of unemployed is what turned me into the progressive I am today. I used to be a Republican. I will tweet this out for you. I have over 600 liberal followers.
We are glad to have you aboard. The Republican party has turned so far to the right that I do not understand how any working class people can vote with them. I have always been a center left Democrat but I used to respect the moderate Republican views. Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon would be liberal Republicans now.
And Lincoln would be a progressive.LOL
Absolutely. The Republican party of that time would definitely have been the more progressive and liberal party. That was true right up through Teddy Roosevelt. I would have been a Republican for sure from 1860 through 1908 and maybe longer. I just read a biography of Henry Clay who was the leader of the Whigs in the early 1800's. They were a precursor of the Republican party. I am a big fan of Clay's and I would have been against the Democratic party of Andrew Jackson back then. It just shows you how times have changed.
PoliticsNOW
‘’Jon you are incorrect the dems did NOT have 60 in the Senate in 2009.’’
I didn’t say the above. I said ‘’President Obama and a super MAJORITY Democrat controlled Congress ( both the House and Senate, 100% control) from Jan 2009 to Sept 2010 passed a $ 787 billion Stimulus Package bill’’
YOU SAID ‘’I know this because my unemployment extensions were on the line and I was ALMOST done with school at the time‘’ Very interesting, you were COLLECTING unemployment, thanks to the taxpayers. Just wondering how many more are collecting unemployment and food stamps that shouldn’t be?
‘’Take off your Obama HATE’’ REALLY, I don’t hate anyone.
HSchneider
‘’I was in the same situation Politics NOW’’, ‘’not assured that the unemployment benefits would be extended.’’ H S hoping your situation was honest?
The link that you refused to open is of Senator Coburn speaking on the floor of the Senate .
You said ‘’my next Hub had stimulus ideas to grow the economy but also offsetting them with CUTS. Your ideas simply drill the economy…. ‘’
My replies are SIMPLE FACTS that are not PROPERGANDA as you imply. Washington is corrupt, has been for many years. In 2008 Candidate Obama pledged to rid Washington of the lobbyist and to have a transparent administration, promises broken.
Obama on bus tour recently stopped in Atkinson, Illinois and asked the audience to tell him what the government needs to do to get people to hire, JOBS. Unanimously they replied new government regulations are killing the job market. President Obama said he will look into the matter only if the regulation doesn’t affect clean water and/or clean air. Sounds good for now!
JOBS , news of the day
President Obama appointed Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of General Electric, to be the chairman of his ‘’ JOB COUNCIL’’ not too long ago. General Electric just signed a joint venture agreement with the Chinese government to construct jet aircraft, a $2 billion deal for GE. The deal makes China a direct competitor of Boeing , a US manufacturer. GE recently closed their world headquarters of a medical x-ray company and moved it all to China (lost jobs and manufacturing ). GE recently close a company in upper New York and moved the jobs to China. GE received $ billions of stimulus money, made record profits, yet paid $ 0 taxes. No doubt about it, that the mainstream media reported the news.
President Obama helps his friends and other big contributors to his campaign. That’s a fact.
Have a good day , be nice and enjoy life
Jon, I am tired of your litany of cherry picked and questionable facts. You swoop down on my Hub and others and dump them like a cropduster. They are meaningless because you offer no solutions or at least possible ideas. I have stated that many times before and still you stick to dumping this white noise on my Hub daily. I do agree with your statement about Jeff Immelt. That appointment was a waste of time and for show. He is a big job exporter.
I will keep it short and simple jon. The dems did NOT have the 60 required to pass what they wanted. OK GET IT?
Thank you for that PoliticsNOW.
HSchneider
''They are meaningless because you offer no solutions or at least possible ideas''
SOLUTIONS are above my PAY SCALE.
Wishing U-ALL a pleasent and happy new day to look forward to in the near future.
Waiting with anxioty for the OBAMA JOB PLAN!
Jon, You are an American citizen. Therefore it is not above your pay scale. You feel perfectly obliged to carp at government but not to offer solutions. That is ridiculous. It is easy to snipe and harder to think and create. No matter what the President offers, you will rail against it. That is what you do. That is totally unproductive.
Don't worry jon Boehner won't allow a jobs plan. That would make things improve. They can't have that while Americans suffer. Don't you get it? They want slave Labor with NO healthcare kind of like someone else in history. He rhymes with shitler.LOL
You are right PoliticsNOW. All the Republicans in Congress will block any spending plan. Is the goal to balance the budget? Of course not. Ask Sen. McConnell. It is to defeat the President in 2012.
HSchneider & company
What is so hard to figure out why the economy is in the dumps. CONGRESS VOTES TO SPEND MONEY. Who has had control of the purse strings since 2007? Any business that spends more than it takes in ,GOES OUT OF BUSINESS, and the jobs go out away too.
The exception to the rule is the US GOVERNMENT , FOR NOW.
People not working (14 million ) are not paying federal taxes ( revenue ). People not working are not in the healthcare insurance pool, result is that those in the pool are being charged higher premiums.
Simple solutions are that recent Obama regulations be revoked, Congress needs to stop spending more than they take into the treasury ( DEFICIT ). With a $16.5 trillion national debt, and the government losing the AAA credit rating, it won’t be easy.
Anxiously waiting for President Obama’s job plan and the Senate‘s 2012 budget.
The House of Representatives passed a 2012 budget in Feb. according to the rules of Congress
note! the Obama administration has hired 200,000 new GOVERNMENT FEDREAL employees since taking office in 2009.
Jon, I agree we need to spend less and bring in more revenue. But that is not why our economy is in the doldrums. The housing market collapsed beginning in late 2007 sparking the financial meltdown of 2008. That is the cause of our economy still being down. Housing has not recovered so unemployment remains high. The budget deficit is a problem but NOT the cause of slow growing economy.
What regulations do you want gone Jon? Loose regulations caused the collapse in 2008.
If you want to curb spending once again end the tax BREAKS. They were created in 04 to spur job growth and we LOST 8 MILLION jobs. THEY DON'T WORK JON. In times such as these the government is there to help out.
Now Jon the GOP and the TP won't allow a jobs plan to succeed. MCconnell said their number one goal is to make Obama fail NOT JOBS! HE SAID it himself! You are rooting for a team that WANTS to throw the game. What don't you understand? It not the debt its the DEMAND and JOBS and REVENUE that has Wall ST. scared. WE HAVE a REVENUE PROBLEM TO.
Very well said PoliticsNOW. The almost non-existent regulations on financial services caused the housing speculation bubble that burst in 2008. Bank are rightfully regulated to carry enough capital to withstand reasonable losses. Lending is more regulated and should be though I do believe that has swung to a case of too much caution. Reasonable regulations are needed on an economy to prevent the pitfalls of greed. They do exist Jon. These regulations are also not what is holding this economy back.
Did you see this HSchneider
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/25/tea-party-
A Tea Party member in a Union collecting disability. The very things they are against.
Thank you PoliticsNOW. There is no end to these Tea Partiers' hypocrisy. That is the first I have heard about that guy. I trust his district is well informed regarding this. It reminds me of Rep. Joe Walsh in Illinois. He talks about Tea Party personal responsibility but he owes $170,000 in back child support. HYPOCRITE!
He was the leading tea idiot to. Always running his mouth on fox news. I don't hear from him so much now.
Politics Now, I KNOW! I have not heard a peep out of Joe Walsh since that came out. He used to be a fixture on the news shows.
Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, ANY OTHER social program ARE NOT THE CAUSE OF THE DEFICIT OR THE ECONOMY! The Bush tax cuts and relentless moronic attacks on government REGULATION are the cause of the economy! This is somehting FDR realized after the Great Depression! Wall Street MUST BE RESTRAINED OR THE COUNTRY"S ECONOMY TANKS ALONG WITH THE WORLD"S! Message for Jon.
I agree with you PoliticsNOW.
If Capitalism was TRULY a "FAIR" and just form of economics OR SYSTEM IF YOU WILL. Then ALL who FAILED in 2008 should have GONE OUT OF BUSINESS...but no, we BAILED them out with the belief that they would prop us back up. Well that didn't happen did it? If you mismanage and run a business into the ground YOU deserve to HAVE THE DOORS CLOSED ON YOU. That's FAIR Capitalism. But thats not what happened. They GOT a FINANCIAL WELFARE check from the people who afterwards got thrown under the bus and then was TOLD "THATS FAIR". Sorry random RANT by PoliticsNOW!
You are right PoliticsNOW. It was proper to bail them out to keep the whole economic system from completing collapsing. But they should not be hoarding cash now and not lending. I do not mean stupid junk loans but real loans for people and businesses with good credit. This is one of the things holding this economy back. That and the depressed housing market.
TeaPartyCrasher Level 4 Commenter 11 months ago
Great hub. May I post on FB?