The Truth Behind The Debt Ceiling Debate
82The Truth Behind the Debt Ceiling Debate
The debate going on now regarding the conditions for raising the United States Debt Ceiling have been predictably political and murky. It is true that progressive Democrats have emphasized protecting social programs and raising revenues. At the same time conservative Republicans have argued for massive spending cuts especially for social programs with no revenue increases. This is a good and proper debate for our country to have. Is it the proper debate to have right now and under these conditions? Should raising the debt ceiling be tied to these negotiations? There is much misunderstanding and many false statements being conveyed regarding the consequences of not raising the debt ceiling. There are many leaders who are positioning themselves politically and rhetorically in ways only meant to advance their own agendas and ambitions. The American people should not be used as pawns in their political game. This is a time for statesmen and stateswomen. The decisions being made now will affect many millions of people adversely in some manner. I will attempt to describe to you in this article what the debt ceiling is and what it means to all citizens of the United States. Then I will analyze the positions of the two parties. Also I will show which leaders in my estimation are attempting to be productive in these proceedings and which are not. Finally I will offer my own solution to both this immediate problem as well as the longer term budget issues. I hope I will succeed in answering the questions I have posed to the satisfaction of my readers as well as any others you may have regarding these issues. The American people need to understand what is going on regarding these debates and how it will affect all of us.
What is the debt ceiling? It was first created in late 1917 in the amount of 11.5 billion dollars. The reason for its creation was for the issuance of bonds and other debts to pay for the United States involvement in World War I. It did not significantly rise again until the early 1940's to fund World War II. This debt ceiling has been raised 102 times in its 94 year history. The debt ceiling represents the loan obligations which our country may incur past and present which remain outstanding. This ceiling needs to be raised when it is estimated that we will have a higher level of these obligations due to budgetary choices in the near future. All of the past debt ceiling increases have been passed very easily. Some Congressional members voted against it at times to protest one issue or another. Senator Barack Obama did this before he was elected President. None of these votes were cast when the vote was seriously in question. This is because everyone involved knew that the consequences to the U.S. would be dire if the debt ceiling was not raised. Our credit rating would drop precipitously if we failed to pay our debt obligations. The estimated U.S. loan interest payments for 2011 are approximately 420 billion dollars. These payments could easily double if our credit rating was dropped substantially. Interest rates would also rise for ordinary citizens as well as state and local governments because these rates are pegged to the Treasury rates. It is unclear what budget expenses would be paid first and in what order they would be paid. Loan interest payments would probably be paid first both because we are legally bound to do so and because the economic consequences would be too expensive and damaging. Our troops may not get paid as well as other federal employees. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and all other social program payments might also be held back. The reason that we might need to withhold these payments is that our expenses outstrip our revenues. Only 56% of our current expenses are covered by our current revenues. So choices will have to be made if the debt ceiling is not raised. What will the U.S. Treasury and the Administration do? This is virgin territory. No one really knows what might happen. I will address this further later in this article.
Both Democrats and Republicans have their political stances over this issue. They also both have their own party divides. The Democrats are led by President Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid who are seeking significant spending cuts along with revenue increases. These increases involve mostly the closing of tax loopholes and corporate tax breaks. They are currently advocating for a deal that has a 4-1 advantage of spending cuts over revenue increases. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and her progressive wing want much lower social program spending cuts than the President has agreed to. The Republicans have a more defined split within their party regarding these negotiations. The newly elected Tea Party faction of the House of Representatives number at least 87 and their clout is very large. They are insisting on massive social program spending cuts with absolutely no revenue increases of any sort. Grover Norquist, the leader of the organization "Americans For Tax Reform", has the signatures of almost every Republican on his no new tax increase pledge. He has threatened to campaign against any of them if they break that pledge. They have effectively abdicated their power to compromise to this non-elected individual. Some even refuse to vote for a debt ceiling increase no matter what deal is agreed upon. Many have stated that they do not even think it is necessary. Most of the Republican leaders in the House and Senate have been much more forthcoming in their efforts to compromise and reach a deal. They seem to realize what the terrible consequences will be if they fail in their efforts to reach a deal and raise the debt ceiling. They had been negotiating with Vice President Joseph Biden for weeks and progress appeared to be moving steadily forward. Even Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell seemed to be on board. He famously stated in 2009 that his main goal was to defeat President Obama in 2012. Unfortunately House Majority Leader Eric Cantor threw a monkey wrench into the talks when he stormed out of a session when the elimination of corporate tax breaks were insisted upon by the Democrats. It appears that he has picked up the leadership mantle of the Tea Party wing of the Republicans in the House. His no revenue increase stance has stopped Speaker Boehner in his negotiating tracks because he knows he will not have the votes for any compromise with President Obama. Cantor's new manuevers have the look of a naked power grab. His eyes are clearly on the Speaker's job. This has left the chance for any significant budget deficit reducing bill in tatters. Senator McConnell and Senator Reid now appear to be developing a bill with Speaker Boehner's approval that will allow the President to raise the debt ceiling incrementally. Much smaller spending cuts will be attached to the bill.
Let me state that I do not believe that this debt ceiling increase question should be tied in any way to the budget negotiations. I feel that the United States Treasury department should be able to pay our bills and debt obligations automatically without any artificial limit derived from the World War I era. It can be eliminated if our political leaders had the will and inclination to do so. Just imagine if you spent money on your credit card and then called the company to state that you cannot pay your balance because you refuse to raise your personal credit limit. You would quickly find yourself in court. Actually, Amendment 14 of the United States Constitution states that the validity of the public debt shall not be questioned. I feel that President Obama should use this as a basis to pay its debts in the event Congress fails to pass the debt ceiling increase. That being said, these budget negotiations which are tied to the debt ceiling increase are going nowhere. Why are both sides not acting more like adults and statesmen? This is especially true of the Republicans. Obstinately sticking to their no new tax revenue stance is similar to a child throwing a tamper tantrum until he gets what he wants. Both sides must compromise to reach a deal. President Obama seems to be bending over backwards to do so. The Tea Party Republicans refuse to compromise. Senator McConnell began drafting his emergency legislation to give President Obama the power to raise the debt ceiling after he received a letter from 400 corporate and Wall Street leaders urging him to pass legislation to increase the debt limit. They argued that the consequences to the American economy would be catastrophic to even flirt with not doing it. Congress had to be scolded into doing this which is proof that we have a totally dysfunctional government. President Obama originally wanted a 4.5 trillion dollar deficit reduction bill over ten years. This would have had some revenue raisers in it by way of eliminating corporate tax breaks and other tax loopholes. The Republicans refused this and then offered a 2.5 trillion dollar plan of only spending cuts mostly through entitlements. Now the only likely plan to go through is Senator McConnell's minimal spending cut plan of around 1.5 trillion dollars over ten years which allows the President to raise the debt ceiling himself. This piece of legislative trickery will cause the President to submit to Congress his intent to raise the debt ceiling two more times before his term is up. The idea being that the Republicans will vote "Nay" each time and he will then veto and raise the ceiling. This way the Republicans are on record saying no but have actually acquieced to the President. Is this a proper way to handle this problem? I say no but it is better to do this and avoid the upheaval of not raising the debt ceiling. My proposal, though the Republicans in the House would reject it out of hand, comes out of my Hub, "My Budget Alternative To Rep. Paul Ryan's Path To Survival Of The Fittest". I would use the 1.3 trillion dollars of savings in waste and fraud over ten years in defense and entitlements from that article as my spending cuts. Then I would raise 1.2 trillion dollars in revenue increases. These would be obtained by eliminating all oil, farm, and ethanol subsidies along with eliminating the state and local income tax deduction and the home mortgage deduction for homes worth more than 1 million dollars. My deficit reduction package would total 2.5 trillion dollars over ten years. Of course this does not come close to balancing the budget. Unfortunately I do not see any way of reaching a budget balancing deal until after the 2012 election. This is why I believe that election will be so crucial to our future. The American people need to tune into this debate which is being conducted now and will carry on through the election. We cannot afford the gridlock and bickering going on in Washington D.C. right now. Our candidates must hear our educated voices on these budget issues. The leaders we elect must then honestly debate these issues and come to a common sense compromise to balance the budget. I hope this article made clearer what is going with the debt ceiling question and the budget deficit reducing debates. Please get involved and educate yourself further. Let your national leaders know your views on these subjects. Also please vote wisely in 2012. Once again our future and our children's futures hang in the balance.
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Thank you for your kind comments Brages. Our Constitution was created through massive compromise at our nation's onset. The failure to compromise helped to cause the Civil War. Compromise has helped to create much of our most beneficial legislation. When did it become a dirty word? The GOP must begin to distance itself from Grover Norquist, the Tea Party, and the Koch Brothers. Otherwise they will become a marginal party while bringing our country down with it.
My mind has really been boogled at how this issue is being used as a political football for the 2012 election. It is like the saying goes, "No matter how cynical you are, you just can't keep up."
This issue is being used as a political football for 2012 mostly because the Republicans are so intransigent on these issues. The new Tea Party faction has their one view and will not deviate. Cut everything and raise no revenues. Cut taxes if you can. Therefore the 2012 elections will have to settle these matters once and for all.
Representatives are sent to Washington not only to represent a point of view, but also to govern. Governing in a representative democracy inherently means compromise. It appears President Obama is willing to compromise on social spending, much to the dissatisfaction of Democrats, but the Republicans are not willing to compromise on closing any tax loopholes to bring in more revenues.
You have hit it on the head Rock_nj. The Republicans have been intransigent on raising revenue while the Democrats are compromising a lot. Although the Gang of 6 has just came out with a new plan that is quite promising. Spending cuts outstrip revenue raisers by 3-1 but it is a compromise. I would like a more even split but this is progress. We will see. Thanks for commenting.
HSchneider, mission accomplished, you shined a light on it.
Interesting how it took Congress only three days (and three pieces of paper!) to hand the banks $800 billion to fix their (self-induced) financial debacle, but they seemingly cannot get a handle on keeping the entire country's future from being flushed down the toilet. Also, why is it that Social Security is on the table? As everyone knows, it is a TRUST FUND and not at all involved with the budget, deficit...or debt ceiling.
Thank you very much Junko. My intention was to make these issues clearer so people can make their choices and see much of this hypocrisy.
You are absolutely right Amanda. Social Security does not need to be on the table. It is solvent and will be for years. We went into deficit after the Bush tax cuts were passed in 2001. Then the 9/11 attacks happened. Homeland security and defense spending skyrocketed. Let the tax cuts expire and end the wars. This will put the budget well on the way to being balanced. Thank you for your comments.
Really excellent Hub HS. You explained things accurately and offer an interesting idea. I would add that the Bush Tax Cuts should be allowed to expire as they were intended. I know that the Republicans will call this a tax increase but it isn't. They had a sunset on them of 10 years, and they all voted for that. Allowing them to expire as they voted for puts the tax rate back up to 39% although I'd only make that apply to the top 2%. Only those over 1 million in income. They can afford it and they'll wake up the next day still being millionaires.
Tax cuts won't solve the most pressing problem right now which is jobs. If I own a shop and get a tax cut, I'm not going to hire a bunch of people. I'll only do that if there is a demand for that based on the number of customers I have.
The position that is taken by the Republicans is completely ideological and should be pointed out for what it is. Grover Norquist says that cutting spending is a better approach than tax increases. He stated that to Chris Matthews in exactly those terms. That's a value judgment on his part. It's based on a theory of rationality. So he's holding to an ideological position dogmatically and it's a position that can't demonstrate why it's true. In contrast, the Democrats are willing to make drastic cuts in programs that have an immediate impact on peoples lives. It's their ability to survive. In this case the outcomes should be weighed in real terms and not theoretical terms.
For one group to hold the country hostage for the sake of an ideological theory is unacceptable. To say that you're willing to allow the United States to default and undermine the entire US economy (and by extension the worlds economy) and force everyone to surrender to an ideology that is followed by what amounts to a religious dogma should be exposed for what it is. Grover Norquist forces all Republicans to sign his pledge. The only pledge that matters is to this country through an oath of office. Grover Norquist is not more important than the economic security of the United States.
Very well said Adagio. Our elected Representatives sign a pledge to protect our country not Grover Norquist. Instead he and the Republicans are holding our country hostage. The debt limit question puts our economy on the edge of a cliff. This is blackmail and is unpatriotic. I agree with you totally that we need to allow all the Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012. Thank you for your very wise comments.
Good Hub HS, It's amazing to me that the politicians have turned a problem into a potential catastrophe. There is cold comfort in the fact that if the economy fails the Tea Party suffers as much as the rest of us.the outrageous part is that the debt ceiling has to be raised to pay for spending that these same people already voted for
Once again Sir, outstanding work. The Norquist factor cannot be underestimated. The contract is a loaded gun to the political future for those whom signed it.Some may say making a deal with the devil. That is except Senator Coburn; who said, with respect to his signature on the Grover pledge, "the country's future is at stake. My alliance to country takes precedent over a pledge to party politics." Snap! One could only hope the voice of reason is not akin to whispering in the wilderness.
You are right ChefsRef. This current crisis need not be a reality. The Debt Ceiling is an unnecessary law. The President should be allowed to pay our bills and debt obligations as they arise. We owe them so they are paid. Period. Of course the Far Right Tea Party Republicans want to play games for a pyrrhic victory. The problem is the lives of the American people hang in the balance. Default will destroy our economy and country. Thank you for your great comments.
Thank you for your kind comments GJF. I have been surprised that Senator Coburn has stepped up and been such a positive force in these negotiations. He is part of the new "Gang of Seven" who have come up with a plan for 9 trillion dollars of savings over 10 years. The ratio is reportedly 3-1 of savings over revenue increases. I do not know the details but it certainly sounds worth examining. His taking a slap at Norquist will encourage some others to do so also. Any which way, the Debt Ceiling must be raised. We MUST pay our bills or our credit rating and economy will go down the tubes.
Coburn surprised me. I'm not a big fan of his at all, but he showed a lot of guts by putting out something that is non-partisan and his own party won't like. It's pretty ambitious and I doubt that it would pass, but it's a place to start. He's more of a conservative than those Teabaggers that have hijacked the party. I wish there were a few more genuine conservatives like this guy. He's conservative and sensible. It seems like he doesn't care about ideology. That's a big plus for me.
You are right Adagio. Coburn is extremely conservative and still came out with this more balanced plan. The Senate Gang of 7 has a 3.8 trillion dollar plan which is smaller but has a better ratio of spending cuts to increased revenue. I applaud Coburn's courage but I doubt a plan that big will make it at this time of divided politics. I especially like his thumbing his nose at Grover Norquist. The Gang of 7 plan has a much better chance and I would prefer it for now. A true budget balancing bill will probably have to wait until after the 2012 elections. Thank you again for your sharp comments.
Great hub. Coburn suprised everyone with what he proposed, including us Okies that thought I had him figured.
Thanks so much for this HUB. This is my first time reading you and I intend to post this, if I can, on my Facebook page. I will be following you from now on.
H--
Once again you have taken a very complicated issue and broken it down so it is easy to comprehend.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this, especially the history of the debt ceiling and how often it has been raised and why. This information also makes clear that our republican leaders have, in fact, no leadership skills whatsoever.
Awesome hub!
Victor, Sen. Coburn was a surprise. I do not know the details yet but advancing something that includes revenue raisers is promising. Finally a very conservative Republican standing up to Grover Norquist. Thanks for your comments.
Thank you for your kind comments Lovly2008. You may certainly post this on Facebook if you wish. Thank you for following me also.
Thank you very much Deni. I feel it is important to know the history of an issue as well as the complete details of that issue. Then one can attempt to understand the two sides. Of course it is difficult to understand the Far Right Tea Party side. Taking our economy off a cliff is criminal. Fortunately I believe cooler heads will prevail. Unfortunately the final package will contain much more in the way of spending cuts than I would prefer.
Holding the America economy as hostage over a stubborn ideological streak from the GOP is a first. The issue of the debt ceiling should have been decoupled from negotiations regarding the budget. Again, the GOP has sunk to a new low. I have more respect for the President as willing to buck his base of support to compromise. The people on the other side has shown so much less flexibility. Somehow the GOP must be made to pay at the polls for their scorched earth plan intransigence in general Great Hub, thanks again Cred2
P.S. What about the rightwing nuts like Bachman who are so quick to minimize the effect of a default? Where do the right get their economists?
You are right Credence2. The Tea Party wing of the GOP are holding this country hostage. Grover Norquist is holding them hostage in turn. There should not even be a debt ceiling. We are one of the few countries that have one. If Congress does not want certain things paid for, do not budget for them. I certainly hope they pay at the polls in 2012. The wingnuts are new members who are either completely ignorant about economics or are just plain lying. Thank you for your comments.
Hey HS
The thing that is left out of the debate on the debt ceiling is the effect government spending has on the entire economy. Government spending makes up 39% of GDP (Wiki). If you cut that back it's not just the government that shrinks, the entire economy shrinks, unemployment skyrockets and an deeper recession
The economy will shrink ChefsRef and that is a real danger. The Great Depression resumed after subsiding in 1937 because FDR and Congress tightened their budget belts and the economy plummeted. President Obama has been asking for an Infrastructure Bank to fund infrastructure projects around the country. This would keep people working and complete work on our crumbling infrastructure. Ideas such as this and investing in education and energy should be explored. Thank you for your insightful comments.
Hey HS
Yes, we learn nothing from history, conservatives keep pushing H.Hoover solutions that failed 70 years ago. I fault Obama for the lack of infrastructure projects. More of the bailout money could have been dedicated to repairing the country and simultaneously putting people back to work a la New Deal NRA.
It rarely gets mentioned but it took WWII with massive government spending to finally end the Depression
Right again ChefsRef. We were getting out of the great Depression with the massive New Deal spending. That ended in 1937 and the Depression kicked back in and unemployment went back up to 19%. Not until 1942 and WWII did we come up out of it. More of the stimulus money should have gone to infrastructure but the GOP watered it down and some Democrats put it into local pork.
Excellent analysis. I am linking this to my metaphor- thanks for commenting on it, btw! I appreciate you.
Thank you Storytellersus. I appreciate you and your wonderful articles also. These Tea Partiers are threatening to take down this economy for their greed and narrowmindedness.
Do Tea Party voters want them to stand firm and not negotiate? This is counter to the American Way. Our Founding Fathers had heated discussions, but eventually achieved brilliant conclusions. These "my way or the highway" folk are not doing the country any good, though I suppose they believe their God appreciates their drawing rigid lines in the sand. Again, thanks for the hub!
The Tea Partiers do seem to approach their political beliefs with something resembling religious zeal. They actually believe that compromise is bad. They also apparently have no economic education beyond cut spending and keep taxes low. They state that the debt ceiling will not cause an economic meltdown. There are virtually no economists that concur with this. I sincerely hope that the senior heads in the GOP Congress find a way to just raise the ceiling as Sen. McConnell apparently has proposed. The debt ceiling MUST be raised. If not, the 2008 financial meltdown will look like a hiccup. The Founding Fathers had profound differences and you are right, they still came to a compromise with the Constitution. Most were expecting to make tweaks to the Articles of Confederation. In the end, they agreed to radical change. The Tea Partiers in no way resemble them. They are more like Patrick Henry's, "Give me spending cuts and lower taxes, or give this economy death".
Excellent! I am linking this to my most recent HUB! Voted up and useful! :)
Thank you very much Justmesuzanne. I appreciate your kind comments. Let us hope they resolve this debt ceiling question today. At this moment, they are still far apart, This is insane. Our country's future is at stake.
Hi Harvey,
Seriesd 7 or 10? Or are you a CFA? I also have studied for the 9 & the 10 and the 4.
I have written about the debt ceilng but it has realy not been an issue as far as paying the debt goes. The treasury has always had the authority s does the president to make certain debt is paid. The real question focuses on how poor the living conditions are within the USA for most Amerians ad whether thee should be better programs andincreased employment within the USA. It is amazing how Washington seems to miss the obvious fact that if they employed everyone tomorrow there would be no problem with social security or entitlements because people would be paying into social security. Social security has become insolvent because of the incredibly high unemployment in the USA and the outsourcing of corporate America.
I am Republican and I do get this but I'm not much for the Tea party crowd.
JT
JT, I am a Series 7, 24, 63. I agree that the President has the authority to lift the debt ceiling and should have. It is better than being held hostage to Tea Party draconian cuts. The main issues are creating jobs and lifting the American peoples' quality of life. I totally agree with all you said. I wish your brand of Republicanism was not disappearing the way it is. The Tea Party philosophies are cruel and mean. Thank you for your excellent comments.
One of the strongest influences in my life regarding my current politics was my high school principal, Tip Hall Jr. who was a true compassionate conservative and went on to become a State Representative. Republicans haven't always been a pox upon our nation!
You are absolutely right Justmesuzanne. Unfortunately the Republican party has been taken over by Far Right social conservatives and now increasingly the Tea Party wing. They no longer can be reasoned with to compromise. The Republican party of old was a fine party comprised of excellent statesmen. I wish that party was here but it is rapidly disappearing. Thank you for your comments.
The Tea Party were apparently the only people in the country who knew it is not good to bankrupt a nation. Now that our credit rating is down, maybe you Socialists will get the drift, but probably not. The comments above show a level of true ignorance about how economics work and how government works. Why not just print 999 trillion fresh dollars and start handing them out to everybody? What, you mean there is a LIMIT to how much a country can spend? The government doesn't produce any wealth. It prevents wealth from being created, rewards sloth, penalizes achievement, is incredibly wasteful, has bureaucracies that are littered with fraud, and even with our credit rating in the toilet you folks think we should give MORE free stuff to people who have not earned it! The reason given for the credit downgrade? SPENDING CUTS WERE TOO SMALL FOR THE AMOUNT OF DEBT THE USA HAS. Who wanted to cut more? ONLY the Tea Party. They are the only people who truly give a damn about America. Leftists only care about themselves: gimme, gimme, gimme! They could care less about our nation; they hate it anyway. So what do they do? BLAST the only people who give a shit about America. Damn you imbeciles piss me off. We are spending $300 billion a day and taking in $180 billion a day. Your solution? Just take money from the successful people! Envy and covetousness run amok because of Leftist propaganda.
I see you have your right wing demagoguery in full swing. The reason our credit rating was downgraded was because the ignorant, yes IGNORANT, Tea party wing of the House refused to vote for ANY debt ceiling raise. The result was we only received a last minute debt ceiling raise with only a slight deficit decrease. This country has a responsibility to take care of its middle and lower classes. That requires revenue increases. I wish to have ALL the Bush tax cuts expire. They were a travesty to start with. They created the most massive wealth shift in our history. Now the wealthy sit on this cash. The working class spends it. Yes, we need large spending cuts. I agree. But they must be accompanied by raises in revenue. Instead the Republicans have themselves blackmailed Grover NOquist. Alan Simpson, no liberal, said as much last week. Standard and Poors downgraded not because of economics but because of the political gridlock. Also because they were embarassed by completing missing the housing crisis. They have a lot of blame for that fiasco also. The downgrade can be placed entirely at the Tea Party and GOP doorsteps. They would not compromise. President Obama was TOO willing to compromise. Instead the wealthy and corporations sit on 2 trillion dollars. They are a worthless and greedy class. Good day James.
Hi James, each time I see you in Hub remarks you seem to be calling people names. That does nothing to move the debate forward but it does make you look bad and immature.
As to the reasons behind the S&P downgrade, this quote is from the S&P website: "near-term progress containing the
growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and
will remain a contentious and fitful process."
To simplify that statement for you, S&P would have continued our AAA rating if we put everything on the table. Obama put entitlements on the table along with taxes and cuts. The tea party rejected the deal and here we are, your interest rates will climb along with mine the same as your air will be polluted along with mine if you succeed in killing the EPA. You should become better informed and support your arguments with facts instead of calling people imbeciles.
Thank you for that exact quote from S&P ChefsRef. You restated my argument perfectly. The Tea Party faction is intransigent because they feel they are on a moral crusade. Everyone else is wrong and compromise is evil. S&P recognizes this and downgraded. We could be well on our way to balancing the budget if both sides would yield on their sacred cows. The Tea Party faction of the House will not. Cantor carries their water and wants Speaker Boehner's job so he will not relent. Their tactics disgust me. Thanks for commenting.
You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. You think the credit downgrade was because of the Tea Party? You are flat out wrong and you know you are but your Leftist brain just won't let you admit it. If the Tea Party had gotten what it wanted—a Balanced Budget Amendment—do you think our credit rating would have been downgraded? Stop your lying. You know what I am saying is the Truth. But, of course, to a moral relativist there is no such thing as objective truth so a lie is just as good as the truth, isn't it?
And you, chefsref, if you are willing to tell the truth—or perhaps become an informed person with knowledge and wisdom—you know Obama did not put ANYTHING on the table. He never introduced a plan. He never said what he would be willing to cut. Stop being a hater.
After Standard & Poors downgraded the U.S. credit rating, the head of the team that made the change said entitlement reform would go a long way to restoring the country's status.
David Beers, global head of sovereign and international public finance ratings at S&P, stated that "governments and Congresses come and go, but spending on entitlements persistently drags U.S. debt further into the red."
"The key thing is, yes, entitlement reform is important because entitlements are the biggest component of spending, and the part of spending where the cost pressures are greatest."
James, Why are you resorting to namecalling? You are better than that. We went into deficit when President George W. Bush got his tax cuts passed. Then came his ridiculous foray into Iraq. Then he dismantled all regulations and we had a financial meltdown. Yes, we need a lot of spending cuts. I do not disagree. But we also need a lot more revenue. I would let ALL the Bush tax cuts expire. Our country has a responsibility to take care of its people when they are poor and elderly. The GOP and Paul Ryan would gut it. Reform yes, gutting it no. A balanced budget amendment would be an abdication of governmental responsibility and would also tie a government's responsiveness to crisises. That amendment would be terrible policy. The gridlock in government now is what caused the S&P downgrade. The Tea Party and Grover Norquist caused the gridlock. Finally in regards to your moral relativist barb. You James are a Christian soldier who feels everyone else is wrong who does not march to your Christian moral straitjacket. I prefer to exercise my free will and have a government that cares about their people not just their corporations.
James will not debate you, SHchneider. He couldn't bait you and will not try to justify his comment with you in public. Keep Soldiering on...
Thank you for your kind comments and support Junko.
James Your remarks drip with venom and the hatred that you accuse of others. The only hatred being expressed here is by you. If you really represent what christianity has become I may turn into an atheist like Ayn Rand. (Yes, yours is a little c form of Christianity)
As far as what Obama put on the table, that is immaterial. Boehner said Obama changed the offer and wanted to raise the taxes by 400 billion, so Boehner walked away. What did Boehner walk away from? A plan that Obama did not put forth? Whatever Obama put forth would have been rejected. It has been more important to the right to gain the presidency than to help the country. The balanced budget idea might have some benefits to it. Bush couldn't have started 2 wars while cutting taxes.
Try reading some unbiased news sources and find out what is going on in the world, there are many news outlets beyond Fox and Rush
ChefsRef, Speaker Boehner was ready to deal but Majority Leader Cantor would not let him. He wants Boehner's job so he has picked up the water for the Tea Party faction. This is his wedge into getting the Speakership if Boehner shows any wavering from Tea Party dogma. Thanks for your comments.
Great hub and great following discussion. While I agree that the Tea Party played a very dangerous game with all of our financial futures, I do give them credit for at least stopping the trend of business as usual. As you mention in your hub, the discussion of taxes vs. spending cuts is a healthy one that needs to take place, and up until this debacle, there was nothing forcing it to take place. It's a shame that the only way to get an important issue to the senate floor and the minds of American people was for a group of elected officials to act like petulant children refusing to compromise on the playground. I have lost respect for just about everyone involved in this mess and I hope to see a lot of new faces after the next election--I just have no idea where they will come from.
Thank you for your comments Rog17. Yes, this discussion of cutting the deficit is a much needed one. The Tea Party faction has put it front and center which is good. But not to the point of destroying our economy. Most of them refused to raise the debt ceiling no matter what. They did act like petulant children and should be voted out in 2012 for their dangerous tactics.
@James A. Watkins:
Experts question wisdom of balanced budget amendment
The Arizona Daily Sun,July 20, 2011
http://azdailysun.com/news/opinion/columnists/expe
"When Washington has gotten snarled in budget impasses over the past 30 years, one perennial favorite remedy is to amend the Constitution to require the federal budget to be balanced. Republicans in Congress have dusted it off again, and it's front and center in today's debate over deficits and debt.
"But experts left, right and center warn that however appealing the idea may sound, it's highly impractical in reality. And it would make economic crises such as the one in 2008 much worse by tying the government's hands when intervention is needed most.
"Five Nobel Prize-winning economists joined forces Tuesday to send a letter to congressional leaders warning against adopting a balanced-budget amendment."
And...
S&P Places U.S. 'AAA/A-1+' Rtgs On CreditWatch Negative
July 14, 2011
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/market-r
"Standard & Poor's TAKES NO POSITION on the mix of spending and revenue measures that Congress and the Administration might agree on. But for any agreement to be credible, we believe it would require support from leaders of both political parties.
"Congress and the Administration are debating various fiscal consolidation proposals. At the high end, budget savings of $4 trillion phased in over 10 to 12 years PROPOSED BY THE ADMINISTRATION, (separately) by Congressional leaders, as well as by the Fiscal Commission IN ITS DECEMBER 2010 REPORT, if accompanied by growth-enhancing reforms, could slow the deterioration of the U.S. net general government debt-to-GDP ratio..."
And...
From: The Economist, July 7, 2011
http://www.economist.com/node/18928600
"Now, however, the Republicans are pushing things too far. Talks with the administration ground to a halt last month, despite an offer from the Democrats to cut at least $2 trillion and possibly much more out of the budget over the next ten years. Assuming that the recovery continues, that would be enough to get the deficit back to a prudent level. As The Economist went to press, Mr Obama seemed set to restart the talks.
"The sticking-point is not on the spending side. It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical.
"A gamble where you bet your country’s good name
"This newspaper has a strong dislike of big government; we have long argued that the main way to right America’s finances is through spending cuts. But you cannot get there without any tax rises."
Thank you for your citations and comments Justmesuzanne. The debt ceiling compromise would have been at least double in size if the Tea Party faction had accepted the elimination of corporate tax breaks. Instead they followed their anarchistic orthodoxy.
'' if the Tea Party faction had accepted the elimination of corporate tax breaks. Instead they followed their anarchistic orthodoxy.''
THE CAP,CUT AND BALANCE BILL HAD CUT THE NATIONAL DEBT $ 4.5 TRILLION OVER 10 YEARS ALL with the approval of Tea Party members of Congress.
The bill arrived in the Senate and Senator Reid put it on the shelf upon arrival, GOOD MOVE?
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH ''There's plenty of blame to go around''
On April 19,2011, on a major news station, Secretary Geithner was asked if the nation was in jeopardy of losing its AAA rating. The Secretary emphatically replied that there is NO WAY that the US credit ratings will be changed.
Today Aug 8, 2011, President Obama had a press conference ( typical no questions asked ) and stated that the US has a AAA rating, ignoring the Standard and Poor’s downgrading of the US credit rating to AA+. The new blame now is on the Tea Party members of Congress for the downgrade, what a joke. The Tea Party members were elected in Nov 2010, and took office in Jan 2011, some 8 months ago.
If Congress would have approved the House bill ''Cut, Cap and Balance '',Standard and Poor’s would not have lower the US credit rating. Senator Reid , most likely as ordered from above, didn't even allow the bill to be debated, amended or voted on in the Senate, that's a fact.
Take Note that the 2011 budget year ends Sept.30,2011. The CBO projected that 2011 budget will have another $1.5 trillion deficit. Since 2009, the Obama Administration has added $4.5 trillion to the national debt. Since 2007 the Democrats have had 2/3s control of our government. In 2006 under Bush and a Republican controlled Congress, unemployment was 4.6% compared to the present 9.1% unemployment under President Obama and a Democrat controlled Senate ( 2/3s control of government )
The Democrats want increases in taxation of the so-called rich as one of the revenue sources, no plans as to how to put people back to work ( paying taxes ).
Republicans want to lower taxes for everyone, cut business loop holes and slow down government regulation on the business sector. The plan is to get people back to work AND HAVE MORE REVENUE COMING INTO THE TREASURY.
In both plans, social programs will be cut in one way or another. That’s a fact
If the Senate FAILS to pass a 2012 budget bill, other credit agencies may follow S&P'S DECISION to reduce the US credit ratings .The House passed a 2012 budget in Feb as required by the rules of Congress.
CONGRESS returns from the break in Sept., the Senate has a lot of work to do upon arrival.
The blame game
#1 President Obama failure to lead the nation out of the depression and failure of the stimulus package
#2 Congress failure to act on budget deficits , over spending , ignoring the credit
agencies and the needs of the American people.
# 3 The People for not putting our elected members on notice to get the job done.
President Lincoln once said ‘’ to be silent is to be a coward ‘’.
Great hub and great following discussion, and from a different side go read my hub http://louisxfourie.hubpages.com/hub/New-savior and give me your coment!
Jon, A balanced budget amendment is an abdication of responsibility. The government needs the flexibility to deal with crises. Cut, cap, and balance was a political gimmick. They want to simply cut the social safety net of this country and allow the wealthy to retain their greatly expanding wealth. I would go along with their spending cuts if they allowed the abominable Bush Tax Cuts to expire. But that is against their Grover Norquist orthodoxy. These Tea Party Republicans follow the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist dictates. Standard and Poors lowerd the credit rating because of political gridlock. President Obama wanted a 4.5 trillion dollar deficit lowering plan that also had revenue raisers in it. The Tea Partiers rejected it. The truth is they did not want the debt ceiling raised under any circumstances. The Tea Partiers who hold that view are traitors. They held the President, Congress, and our country hostage. They are to blame. Also S&P because their decision was ridiculous. They are making up for their terrible ratings of AAA on the junk housing securities.
Thank you Louisxfourie. I will check out your site.
HS, I appreciate that you conduct this discussion in a rational manner. I do not think falling into emotionalism ever resulted in positive change. When a party roadblocks everything in the name of their own righteousness and does not acknowledge their human failures, well... it is simply impossible to negotiate with god men. Thank you for your careful study and your educational hubs.
Thank you for your kind compliments Storytellerus. I try to write down positive solutions and accurate analysis of the issues of the day. Sometimes I receive critical comments of my assessments and I do not mind them at all. I do object to name calling and dismissiveness of my views. These tactics do nothing to advance the debate on any issues. This was the problem in the debt ceiling debate. The Tea Party faction refused to compromise at all and refused any votes to raise the debt ceiling. I enjoy debating these issues with anyone as long as the commenter sticks to objective reasoning on the facts. That is the only way for either side to learn anything and come to a resolution. One must always listen to the other side or else you never learn anything.
Great Hub, get ready to write about this some more. They will do this all over again. The tea party are cheering due to our downgrade. Great Patriots huh? I hope the push back starts in WI and continues.
I hope they vote all the GOP candidates down in Wisconsin today and in 2012. The Tea Party is cheering the downgrade and they should be blamed for it and voted out in 2012. Thank you for your comments PoliticsNOW.
Good point, HS- listening to the other side expands perspective!
Yes it does Storytellerus. No one is perfect and you can learn from anyone.
HSchneider
'One must always listen to the other side or else you never learn anything.''
It’s really not hard to understand. The treasury needs revenue to pay the bills.
14 million out of work are not paying taxes ( a source of revenue ),some members of congress believe that collecting unemployment checks are a '' living wage ''.
The money to pay them is borrowed money, makes sense to Obama & Company.
Without the rich ( all the money ) buying, the economy would be worst. The Dems believe charging them more taxes will solve the revenue problems, simply false.
Obama needs to start telling the truth about the STATE OF THE UNION!
"What makes America look unreliable isn’t budget math, it’s politics. And please, let’s not have the usual declarations that both sides are at fault. Our problems are almost entirely one-sided — specifically, they’re caused by the rise of an extremist right that is prepared to create repeated crises rather than give an inch on its demands." ~ Paul Krugman, Economist, The New York Times 8/*-9/11
Jon, I totally agree with you that there is not enough revenue coming in. I would allow the Bush tax cuts to expire, elimate corporate tax breaks, and raise Social Security and Medicare withholding taxes. I wrote a Hub about this earlier. I also had a lot of spending cuts in my proposal. The Democrats are correct. We need more taxes. We had a surplus by the end of the Clinton Administration before the unnecessary Bush tax cuts were passed. That was a time of fiscal sanity and prosperity.
Thank you JustmeSuzanne. I could not have said it any better. The Tea Party faction almost took us over the economic cliff because they would not compromise to anything. We still are not out of the woods.
(Yawn.) Call me Rip van Winkle. I slept through the debt ceiling debate. When I woke up these thoughts popped into my head.
The Boston Tea Party involved citizens demonstrating against unfair taxation. The struggle eventually led up to the Revolutionary War.
The Tea Party of today was organized to mobilize a movement to “take back America” from … ___________. This is where I keep drawing a blank. But I believe their primary complaint is “political mismanagement” of the nation. Their solution is to place the country under “new management”. Their present endeavors are totally aimed at convincing everybody else that they can govern the United States much better than ... ___________. Sorry. I’ve drawn another blank.
I can’t speak for anyone else. But the Tea Party has yet to convince me that they can provide new direction and lead the USA into becoming an even greater “land of the free” than what it already is. But that’s just me.
Quite frankly … and I will dare to say it … I view the Tea Party movement as an all out attack on the presidency. Not an attack on Obama who happens to be the current president. But an all attack … not a demonstration against … AN ATTACK ON THE PRESIDENCY OF THE UNITED STATES.
OK. I said what I meant to say and what I thought I needed to say.
And if what I am saying is TRUE … then to quote the words of a true American patriot, Daffey Duck: “Of course, you know … THIS MEANS WAR!!!”
Thank you for your comments Mib56789. I agree with what you say. The Tea Party, in my estimation, is against government itself. They wanted to tear down our economy over this debt ceiling question and almost did. I do think that many of these people are especially angry at President Obama. They will deny this but deep down his race is a factor. His otherness scares them. That is part of what has sparked this "Take our country back" nonsense. There was a fair election in 2008 and President Obama won handily. Actually the Tea Party was created and is funded by Corporate America. The Koch Brothers are the prime force behind them. They want all regulations removed from business and lower taxes. The Tea Partiers are simply their puppets.
The A-MAZE-ZING Koch brothers, eh? Well I knew somebody had to be throwing money in their collection plates. :)
Yes, the Koch Brothers. They fund former Majority Leader Dick Armey who got them out to their protests. They fund Clarence Thomas' wife's group and many, many others that influence the Tea Party.
Although I do not agree with your argument as presented in this Hub, I did appreciate your calm, reasonable tone, and clear writing. Had I only read the Hub, I would have left without comment. The Hub did not rile me up. I made the mistake of reading down through the comments and the things said there—so snide and snarky—incensed me. I am sorry for using naughty words. I apologize for name calling. I humbly ask for your forgiveness.
Apology accepted James. I know that you do not normally resort to that type of thing. I also know we disagree on most issues but I do enjoy rationally debating them with you. Thank you for your compliments regarding my tone and clarity of writing.
HSchneider
''Jon, I totally agree with you that there is not enough revenue coming in.'' The problem is the use of the money being wasted in running the government (WASTEFUL SPENDING )
The money is not getting to the people in supporting new jobs.
The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011
DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video
Back in the black, the SOLUTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
here's an example
Vote Date: January 26, 2010, 07:50 PM
Just a thought about Senator ( Republican ) Coburn trying to move the country in the right direction.
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_li
Statement of Purpose: To rescind $120 billion in Federal spending by consolidating duplicative government programs, cutting wasteful Washington spending, and returning billions of dollars of unspent money.( To the treasury ? Could be the revenue that Obama is looking for ? )
YEAs 46 NAYs 48 Not Voting 6
Jon, Again I agree that in every government there is a lot of waste, fraud, and duplication. I am all for having this sought out in the budget and eliminated. I also feel we need a jobs and stimulus program to get that money into the right hands to create jobs and invest in our future. I wrote another Hub about this very subject. I am for smart budget cutting and smart investing.
HSchneider
Statement of Purpose: To rescind $120 billion in Federal spending by consolidating duplicative government programs, cutting WASTEFUL Washington spending,
YEAs 46 NAYs 48 Not Voting 6
Here is the list of nays, remember them next time you are in the booth
NAYs ---48
Akaka (D-HI),Baucus (D-MT),Begich (D-AK), Bingaman (D-NM, Bond (R-MO,
Boxer (D-CA, Brown (D-OH), Burris (D-IL),Cantwell (D-WA, Cardin (D-MD,
Carper (D-DE, Casey (D-PA), Conrad (D-ND, Dodd (D-CT), Dorgan (D-ND),
Durbin (D-IL) (#2 in charge ),Feinstein (D-CA),Franken (D-MN),Gillibrand (D-NY,
Harkin (D-IA),Inouye (D-HI),Johnson (D-SD), Kaufman (D-DE),Kerry (D-MA,
Kirk (D-MA), Landrieu (D-LA), Lautenberg (D-NJ),Leahy (D-VT),Levin (D-MI),
Lieberman (ID-CT), Menendez (D-NJ),Merkley (D-OR), Murray (D-WA),
Nelson (D-FL),Nelson (D-NE), Pryor (D-AR), Reed (D-RI), REID (D-NV) ( MAJORITY LEADER), Rockefeller (D-WV), Sanders (I-VT), Schumer (D-NY),
Shaheen (D-NH),Specter (D-PA),Stabenow (D-MI),Tester (D-MT),Udall (D-NM),
Whitehouse (D-RI),Wyden (D-OR)
NOTE THAT 8 DEMOCRATS voted with the Republicans. Amendment Rejected
wow! the Republicans and a few Democrats are in there fighting for the taxpayers, you wouldn't know it when President Obama speaks.
Jon, President Obama and the Democrats ARE fighting for the working class. The Republicans and Corporate America are looking to destroy it. They want to destroy our social safety net and cut taxes on the wealthy. The Republicans wanted to slash spending but will not consider cutting any corporate welfare. The Republicans are ONLY for protecting their campaign funds from Corporate America. The Koch Brothers have bought and paid for all of them. Never forget that.
HSchneider
''They want to destroy our social safety net ''
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SOCIAL SAFETY NET ?
Do have an answer for those 9.1 % out of work collecting a Democrat '' living wage '', a 2 year unemployment check and food stamps.
Let's stop making excuses and pointing fingers, get back to reality. We the people have elected a buffoon who is who he is and what he was before being elected on his beautiful promises.
Under Obama's watch he has raised the national debt $4.5 trillion in only 2.75 years.
Jon,
President Obama is not a buffoon. The Republicans have been cutting programs that keep money in working class pockets and giving to the rich. The working class spend and the wealthy hoard. The Republicans refused to accept the president's package of 4.5 trillion in cuts because they refuse to cut corporate tax breaks. The Republicans accepted a much lesser deal so they did not betray their puppeteers, the Koch brothers and Grover Norquist. The GOP are the puppets of Corporate America.
In regards to presidential spending, here's a handy-dandy chart from the Washington Post:
Thank you for that chart Justmesuzanne. President Bush and the GOP effectively created many more unfunded mandates. President Obama's added spending was stimulus to fight the recession which is winding down and non-recurring. His Healthcare plan is funded.
great hub -
Thank you very much Neil.
HSchneider
THE US CONSTITUTION IS THE FOUNDATION OF THE PEOPLES GOVERNMENT. Some of your statements that you have made are untrue.
1‘’This country has a responsibility to take care of its middle and lower classes. That requires revenue increases’’
2.‘’Our country has a responsibility to take care of its people when they are poor and elderly. The GOP and Paul Ryan would gut it.’’
Note that the 2012 Ryan budget was passed by the House in Feb. and it is the only budget in Congress. Where is the Senate’s 2012 budget? The US Constitution is for ALL CITIZENS!
3. You said ‘’ The downgrade can be placed entirely at the Tea Party and GOP doorsteps. They would not compromise. President Obama was TOO willing compromise.’’
NOT TRUE
You said
‘’President Obama wanted a 4.5 trillion dollar deficit lowering plan that also had revenue raisers in it. The Tea Partiers rejected it‘’. NOT TRUE they did compromise.
I SAID
‘’THE CAP,CUT AND BALANCE BILL HAD CUT THE NATIONAL DEBT $ 4.5 TRILLION OVER 10 YEARS ALL with the approval of Tea Party members of Congress.
President Obama and Senator Reid said that the House Bill was dead on arrival, WONDER WHY, IT LOOKS LIKE WHAT OBAMA WANTED?
The bill had revenue increases, loop hole cuts and tax cuts.
4. ’’We went into deficit when President George W. Bush got his tax cuts passed. Then came his ridiculous foray into Iraq. Then he dismantled all regulations and we had a financial meltdown. Yes,’’
Note that the war in Iraq and the tax cuts were approved by Congress and were necessary due to 911 and the 2000 recession inherited from President Clinton. Housing laws and the Commodity laws were changed in the Clinton administration.
Check this link out to get by the propaganda issued by the left that blames the right for ALL THE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS.
Shelby As Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, he twice passed strong reform (2004, 2005) that would have reined in these entities. Each of these bills were blocked by Democrats.
Senator Obama was one of the Senators in 2005 that filibustered the bills.
http://banking.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAct
Congress and the President is on vacation since passing the bill to raise the National Debt. All the talk about bringing Congress back to Washington was a hollow sound coming from the Whitehouse. The people can wait for a jobs bill, no rush or urgency now.
Jon, You write the same arguments on this Hub and many others over and over again. I have answered you and offered my own solutions in this Hub and others. You offer none and simply complain about the Obama Administration. Next time you write, offer me your solution. Please do not regurgitate that it is above your pay grade. The President is trying to get this economy going and will submit a jobs plan that the GOP House will surely shoot down immediately. My feeling about balancing the budget is this and I have said it many times before. The super committee will cut 1.5 trillion out of the budget or if they fail automatic cuts will occur. Then the President should allow the Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012 for another 3.5 trillion dollars at least. There, I have offered a solution or at least a partial one. What say you and what do you have to offer? Please use another venue to heckle the President unless you have a solution to offer. The Ryan budget strangles the working class of this country and will spark a class war. Cap, cut, and balance does the same and also abdicates the Congress' power to react to national crises. The House needs to realize we need to cut spending AND RAISE REVENUES HEAVILY. We have a revenue problem. Yes John, I know its because of unemployment. The banks and corporations need to start spending their hoard of cash to end that. Unemployment will not end but grow by only instituting spending cuts.
HSchneider
OK ,let’s play a game. I give you one and than you give me one thing that President Obama has done to create jobs in the private sector that benefit all workers.
‘’Jon, President Obama and the Democrats ARE fighting for the working class.’’ ''The banks and corporations need to start spending their hoard of cash to end that''.
The Student Loan program was put into the Obama Healthcare bill. The private sector administered the Student loan program thru mostly banks prior to the law change. The government taking over the program took away 32,000 workers in the private sector market. Smart move, yes or no
NOW the government will hire union workers to administer the program. Obama claims that the government can do the job cheaper since there is no need of a profit motive. REALLY
The average pay in the PUBLIC sector is $70,000 plus $40,000 in fringed benefits, a total of $110,000. In comparison the average pay in the PRIVATE sector is $40,000 plus $9,000 in fringe benefits, a total of $49,000.
SOMETHING is very wrong, why does public employees receive $31,000 more in fringe benefits than the private sector?
A recent CBO government report on the Stimulus INVESTMENT showed that of $666 billion spent ,the money CREATED or SAVED (public sector jobs ) 2.4 to 3.6 million jobs. The Obama administration’s
calculations naturally are the higher count. Seems like they can never get it right as to the numbers. For some reason their calculations have been wrong 40% of the time.
Depending how you look at things, it looks like the cost of 1 JOB IS $185,000. With unemployment still at 9.1 % , the taxpayers didn’t get a lot of bang for the BUCK.
Have a good day
Jon, The stimulus program created jobs rebuilding infrastructure and provided funds to keep jobs from being cut. You will deny this but I do not care. I am sick of your constant criticizing on my Hubs and others while putting forward nothing. You are like a little fly buzzing in everyone's ear. You contribute nothing as far as solutions. I hope the President proposes this Jobs Creation credit to get companies hiring and propose more money to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure. I have proposed these things and more in previous Hubs. I have heard that the President will also. What have you proposed except budget cutting? Do not worry, the Tea Party controlled House will vote everything the President proposes down anyhow. There budget plans would sink our economy.
Thank you Justmesuzanne. That site has very valuable information that Jon and other of the President's critics will completely discount. President Bush was the greatest of the deficit incresers. President Obama had an economic disaster to deal with produced by President Bush and his GOP cronies.
Well, as Paul Krugman says:
"Within the G.O.P., willful ignorance has become a litmus test..." and "Mr. Perry and those who think like him know what they want to believe, and their response to anyone who contradicts them is to start a witch hunt."
Thank you again Justmesuzanne for that latest link. Jon Huntsman is actually a candidate that I could consider voting for. He is an intelligent and civil man all of which is why he only is getting 1% in national GOP polls. As the article stated, the GOP is now mostly Far Right and they deny facts and perpetuate falsehoods. Romney is a coward and a flip flopper and will tilt any which way to get elected. It all makes me ill.
justmesuzanne
3 CHARTS COMMENTS
The Stimulus and Jobs chart from the office of the democratic leader.From Jan, 2008 to Nov 2008 jobs went lost under Republican policies.
‘’In this chart, the RED lines on the left side -- the ones that keep doing DOWN -- show what happened to jobs under the policies of Bush and the Republicans. We were losing lots and lots of jobs every month, and it was getting worse and worse’’
THE TRUE FACT IS THAT
The Democrats held a majority control of Congress from 2007 to 2008, the last 2 years of President George Bush Administration. All legislation decisions were made by and controlled by the majority DEMOCRAT party. To blame the Republican policies are NOT TRUE.
‘’The BLUE lines -- the ones that just go UP -- show what happened to jobs when the stimulus was in effect.’’ Unemployment under Bush and a Republican Congress was 4.6% in Nov 2006 .Today in 2011 under President Obama and a Democrat controlled Congress unemployment is 9.1 %.The stimulus package has not worked as the report indicates. Note, that the projections in the chart extend to July 2011.
Us Government Spending Chart extends to 2013 and reflects a downgrade in Obama spending. That chart is incorrect to the actual Obama spending of record $1.3 trillion deficits each year of the Obama administration. Please verify accuracy of the chart.
Budget Deficit Chart reflects similar errors. Note that red line rises in 2007 when the Democrat majority was in control of Congress. Since 2007 up to the present, Aug.30,2011, the Democrats have had 2/3’s control of the government including the office of the Presidency. The Republicans have had a 1/3 rd control of government ’’ THE HOUSE ’’ only since Jan 2011.
The report appears biased in many ways and could be considered Democrat propaganda on behalf of the Obama administration.
HS please excuse the long reply, thank you
Jon, Your charts and statistics are biased towards your views also. The Bush Administration instituted their tax cuts and also created the unfunded elderly drug benefit. A benefit which actually created the donut hole in the middle where the elderly have to pay in full. It also greatly benefits the pharma companies. Combine this with 2 wars and massive homeland security expansion and the deficit exploded. He should have raised revenues to pay for those. President Obama was simply attempting to revive a dying economy with his expansion of spending.
HSchneider
GET OUT OF THE PAST!Bush is no longer the president. Congress votes on the budget and spending, the President only puts his stamp on the bill/ budget. Congress passing continuing resolutions does not solve the spending problems of Congress.The Senate has yet to pass a 2012 budget.
I don't use charts, charts are too easily monipulated to one's pleasure.
The fact is that the stimulus spending package actually increased unemployment. Without people working, the treasury will continue to lack revenue.
Get off the bus,Obama is in the drivers seat pushing the pedals to destroy our country.
Notice,mark your calender.
Sept 7,2011 at 8:00 pm est Republican Presidential debate. Sept 8,2011 Obama speaks to joint session of Congress and releases his JOBS PLAN.
Jon, The stimulus plan DID NOT increase unemployment. You do not use charts, you cherry pick supposed facts to make your point over and over until they become meaningless. We can debate the efficacy of government spending but it does not increase unemployment. You are being silly. It increased infrastructure jobs and kept states from laying off workers when the economy was at its most vulnerable.
Also Obama saved the car industry. A proven fact supported by the 9.8% INCREASE in SALES. JON don't tell us to NOT to blame Bush. Obama would NEVER had to sign a stim bill if not for the FAILED policies of the BUSH ERA. ITS HIS FAULT! Now your GOP and TP buddies will do all they can to STOP Obama from creating JOBS! Move the date, talk SH!T about the plan all the while AMERICANS SUFFER!
Well said, PoliticsNOW. The Obama Administration used TARP money to backstop the auto industry except for Ford and now it is vibrant. I do not care what laissez faire nonsense the Far Right will spout, that policy worked greatly and saved thousands of jobs.
I think that JON has seen enough compelling evidence to support the idea that the political right, "the forces of darkness" will use scortched earth tactics to destroy the Obama administration as well as the aspirations of the American people for simply political purposes.
This is a personal vendetta against Obama, isn't it Jon/ He(Obama) could not win even if walked on water wearing cement overshoes. Bush is not the past but he is why all that was done by the current administration was necessary in the first place
Well, JON, I don't buy it, I want the president to make heads roll for the Gop, if they screw around and not get serious about job proposals as provided by the president. I want the President to let the world know in neon lights who the 'stick in the muds' regarding our economic progress really are, so that there is NO DOUBT among the electorate who needs to be punished in 2012.
Thank you Cred2. Jon and others on the Right, and I am betting that Jon will say he is a moderate independent, cannot stand President Obama and will be against anything he does. I do not think Jon is as doctrinaire as most of the Tea Party and the GOP regulars. I think he was also against President Bush's overspending. But I have to say that Jon's zealotry against President Obama and the Democrats is overwhelming and he cannot see any good in this administration. He now has Obama blinders on. Jon wants to balance the budget no matter what. Even if it sinks us into a renewed recession or worse, a Depression. Great observations Cred2.
I have to laugh at the people here that blame only the republicans or only the democrats. We did not get 15 trillion dollars in debt with only one party to blame. they all had a hand in it. I served in the Air Force and I have worked in a grocery store where many of our customers were on food stamps. I can tell you from experience that that almost every government program could easily find 10% to cut. There is so much fraud, waste and abuse that if you really knew how much money was defrauded from the American taxpayer it would make you sick. I would be for a tax hike I if really believed it would actually go to pay down the debt. Sending more money to Washington is like giving an addict the keys to the pharmacy. HSchneider you made some good points but then you just lost any respect I would have had for you as you painted all republicans with a broad brush. Please explain to me how we can continue to spend more than we take in and still be a solvent nation?
Thank you for commenting Kelpet1. I first off never said that we can continue to spend more than we take in. Read my Hub where I give my alternative to Paul Ryan's budget plan. I propose a lot of spending cuts along with tax increases and cuts in tax breaks. I come much closer to balancing the budget than Paul Ryan. Mostly because he cuts taxes while cutting spending. That is absurd. I also then wrote a Hub where I would stimulate the economy after balancing the budget. I would make other spending cuts to offset those stimulus measures. I like to find solutions on all sides. Unfortunately the Republicans have almost all signed the ridiculous Grover Norquist "No Net Tax Increase" pledge. None of them are brave enough to compromise on this even to eliminate unneccessary tax breaks and loopholes. The President and the Democrats caved into a lot of their spending cuts with no new revenue raisers. Please read all of my work before saying that you have lost respect for me and please examine the Congressional Republican positions. I believe I am even handed between cuts and new taxes. Thank you.
HSchneider
''The Obama Administration used TARP money to backstop the auto industry except for Ford and now it is vibrant''
HS was that a good thing ?? The tarp money added to the Bush deficit ,$1.3 trillion. If it was a good thing ,give Bush and Congress credit for saving the auto industry.
That's not to hard to figure out, is it? THE FACTS, President Obama spent $1 trillion( STIMULUS BILL ) to change the economy around, keep unemployment under 8%,supply money for shovel ready jobs and save public employees from being laid off in addition to using stimulus money to beef up union pension funds. Somehow the private sector jobs were not important to help changing the economy. OH, let’s not forget the $ billions spent in the alternate fuel industry.
Please for all those billions spent at a cost of $185,000 a job, how much money has returned to the US treasury in taxes from company profits?
THE TREASURY NEEDS REVENUE in order to run the government and pay the bills.
HSchneider
''Jon will say he is a XXXXXX independent, cannot stand President Obama and will be against anything he does''.
OBAMA has told the public on many occasions that Bush and the Republican policies are the cause of the economy. Check the following against what you are being told.
1.‘’we need to use the government to make it fair... take money or resources from the rich and give them to the poor‘’.
The Obama led government has placed 340 NEW regulations costing the private sector $65 billion to operate their businesses . The continuing threat to add more is the major reason why business is holding back on hiring more people . Result of which is 14 million out of work and a 9.1%unemployment crisis.
On Obama’s recent bus tour, the audience told the president that NEW government regulations are hurting the business industry. President Obama said that he will look into the matter, just another
2.A recent IRS audit revealed that illegal immigrants received $4.2 billion from Uncle Sam under the earned income TAX credits. Wow, fraud and/or waste?
3‘’.The jobs will go offshore only because of government taxes and regulations in addition to higher labor cost here in the US. THAT TOO IS AN OLD STORY.”
Check out this Series of articles tracking the stimulus money. By Russ Choma
Blown Away: Tracking stimulus grants for renewable energy
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig
Have a good day, enjoyed the discussion.
Ps Check the TV schedule for Sept. 7, 2011 and Sept. 8, 2011
MAYBE 2 DAYS OF ENLIGHTMENT?
Jon, Sorry for not answering sooner but HubPages failed to notify me that I had comments. Let me answer your first comments of 3 days ago. Most of the TARP money has been paid back with a profit. Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, and a few others still owe significant amounts. Hopefully we will eventually see that money paid back. The alternative to not doing the TARP was to see the entire financial system collapse. We would have fallen into and would still be in a Depression if that had been allowed to happen. I give the Bush Administration and Secretary of the Treasury Paulson great credit for pushing that program through. The stimulus bill kept many jobs from being lost at a critical time where the economy was exceptionally weak. Balancing the budget is a fine goal but there are times where drastic measures must be taken to save the economy as a whole. That is why I am against a balanced budget amendment. Government needs flexibility to act in emergencies. We the voters need to keep them honest and not go to extremes.
Jon, Now for your comments from 2 days ago. Regulations were sorely needed on business after 8 years of the Bush Administration regulating nothing. They had industry lobbyists heading all of the regulatory agencies. Part, though only one of many, of the reasons for the financial industry and housing industry crumbling was lack of effective regulation. Industry will do whatever it takes to make profits unless it is overseen by the government. Capitalism runs on self interest and greed. I have no problem with that except to say you need people watching them and keeping them from doing the wrong thing. They will do so every time if they find it to be cost effective. As far as your immigration criticism, there is waste and fraud in all programs and they should constantly be sought out and eliminated.
HSchneider
HOPING YOU HAD A GOOD HOLIDAY TODAY. I watched the President speak at the union rally in Detroit. He is a great campaigner, same old stuff about a job plan. CNN had a forum featuring 5 of the republican candidates. Very informative, so don't miss the debate on wed. from Florida. The final show will be Obama's speech to Congress on sept9, 2011.
A real chance to get up on the facts and bull?
Does Jon even know Bush Signed Tarp? Wait according to the teabags Bush never existed. He never spent over 5 trillion and lost 8 million jobs. NEVER HAPPENED right Jon?
Hope you had a good holiday also Jon. I will watch the debate and the President's speech. I do not expect anything new and bold from either. I hope I am wrong about both.
Now Now PoliticsNow. I think Jon knows all of that but I think he feels that President Obama has made things worse. I disagree with him on that and I think the GOP controlled House will block any plans he now has to increase jobs.
Without a supportive congress, Obama will be blocked at every turn. I hope the 2010 elections gave everyone a wakeup call. I know WI got one. When they recall Walker in Jan it will be a great win for the Dems.
I agree PoliticsNOW. I hope they recall Gov. Walker also.
HSchneider /PoliticsNOW
Greetings to my friends in the middle of the road. On Wed the Republican Candidates will debate each other.
On Thurs before the football game, Obama's speech to Congress will last about 35 min.
Truly this week is a week to remember. On Sunday, 9-11 we remember the 3000+ who were murdered by one of our enemies.
On Sept 30, 2011, the 2011 budget year ends with another projected $1.3 trillion deficit. The Senate for almost 3 years hasn't produced a budget as required by rules of Congress.Note that Obama was in Congress too!
If Congress follows the Pay-Go law signed by President Obama and respects the recent agreement on the increase in the National Debt limits of $14.3 trillion plus 2.5 trillion, any proposed Obama jobs plan probably will be worked out by both parties. The country is anxiously waiting. Back in the black, the SOLUTION
HSchneider /PoliticsNOW
CHECK THIS HUB OUT.Solar Power, The Future Is Here ?
http://jon-ewall.hubpages.com/t/28f658
YOUR comments please
President Obama said '' Buy AMERICAN ''
We agree on something Jon, Buy American. If you are set on PayGo, why not start with the Bush Tax Cuts. They cost billions and create no jobs? End them and half the debt will be gone in 10 years. The rich can afford 4% more. The same levels as the 90s when Clinton handed Bush a surplus and we were on a track to have NO DEBT! Instead Cheney had back room meeting on how much to give the rich and Bush and Cheney started a war based on a lie and BOTH profited from it. Check out the movie Iraq for sale WAR PROFITEERS! They raked in BILLIONS of taxpayer money.
Jon, I hope the President's plan is bold but I doubt it. I am told that it would be offset by other spending cuts. I would raise other taxes instead but that will never happen. My ideas on a jobs stimulus plan have been stated in an earlier Hub. Your comment about the Senate not passing a budget is just some more repetitive shrill noise that you spout on many Hubs. This refrain has become white noise to us.
Jon, I read your Hub earlier in the morning. You are correct that solar power is not economical right now. It must be invested in and researched more to improve the processes and make it economical. All new products especially totally new industries start out expensive and then the price lowers as it becomes more widely used. It is unacceptable to stick exclusively to our old energy sources because they are ruining our environment and economy. We need to continue to invest along with industry in solar energy and other alternative renewable energy sources. I do not care what the economics of it are right now. The future of our country both economically and environmentally is at stake now. We should and must invest in all of these sources and industries. Therefore I reject all of your economic reasons not to. Being a successful budget balancing accountant is not all of what governing is about. Protecting future generations is also.
PoliticsNOW, I agree and have been banging my head against the walls asking that the Bush Tax Cuts be allowed to expire. I also believe that we have to end these wars and drastically slash the defense budget.
Hey Hs
Yes, the thing that seems to be overlooked in the budget debacle is the size of the military. We could survive well with a military half the size that it is now. Eisenhower warned us of the danger of the military industrial complex and it is now so large that it strangles the country, sucking up resources that should be used for the benefit of people. History is replete with empires that fell because they were over extended militarily and we will be next.
Or, I suppose we can keep our guns if we stop helping old and sick people, cut funds for education, eliminate unions and stop feeding people with food stamps
Thank you for those comments ChefsRef. We should bring the troops home soon and sharply cut the defense budget. Even with that, the Republicans will want to cut the social safety net for the working class.
HSchneider
WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE BUSH TAX CUTS. The tax cuts were for everyone in the Bush years. allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire is a TAX INCREASE ON EVERYONE.WOW, just think about that 14 million out of work ,they won’t get a tax increase if congress allows them to expire.
PoliticsNOW
‘’Clinton handed Bush a surplus’’, lets not forget a recession too!
Wake up and get back in the present and stop the bull.
Try to understand that the government stimulus has given the taxpayer’s money for a failed system while closing down the oil industry ( loss of 100,000 jobs ) plus the economy that goes with the jobs. The government spending is the problem. Just wondering how many small businesses lost their life’s savings and the jobs that go with the businesses.
Question, if you are going broke would you pay more for a product or be simple and buy the less costlier product?
How about LEADERSHIP, continuing blaming Bush for all the nations problems. Just a reminder that Obama, Reid and Pelosi were a part of the problems with a majority Democrat controlled Congress in the last 2 years of the Bush administration. After spending $ 1 trillion , this administration loss another 1.3 million workers.
please be civil in your comments, Obama said that a while ago.
Jon, Now I see you are not serious about balancing the budget. The Bush Tax Cuts affected all of the people but the wealthy received a disproportionate amount of the benefit. Would you gut our social safety net instead of eliminating these regressive cuts? You have no plan. If you do have a plan, it sounds like the Tea Party ideas. They are gut the social safety net and cut taxes. Do not raise taxes. If this is your plan, then you are a pawn of the Koch Brothers because they fund all of this nonsense. Their plans will destroy the social fabric of this country and cause unprecedented civil unrest.
Recession started in 2003, Bush was in office for 3 years by then. That is why they enacted the Bush tax cuts. We lost 8 million JOBS Jon you call that success?????????????????????????? Come on keep fooling yourself I don't care. By the way we SPENT 3 TRILLION for the 8 MILLION jobs lost. If that worked in your book JON I would hate to see what is a failure in your words.
Just a bit of history for you Jon the economic downturn started in 2003 when we lost almost 4 million jobs under Bush LONG before Obama took office. That is why we spent 500 BILLION on tax cuts for the first round. They were supposed to create jobs but we lost millions more. You can't blame Obama for 8 years of Bush failure. If the right does win in 2012 you KNOW they will blame Obama for years. Obama can't get anything done due to NO support in the congress and their RECORD number of fillibusters OVER 120. Gov Norquist said if Obama wins they will NOT let him govern. So far they have kept their word.
I have even run into people who think Obama wuld have passed a stim pack even if Bush handed Obama a great economy and not the PILE OF SH!T Obama inherited. WITH HUGE UNPAID DEBT!
PoliticsNOW, Jon does not like to emphasize the sad Bush economic record. He would rather criticize everything that our current President does or asks for.
That is called WILLFUL IGNORANCE and I HATE IT. They LIE knowing the real truth. Its a VERY dangerous attitude to have in the fragil economy we live in where so many are suffering. This is the very attitude that drove me to learn and fight back with the truth. I know what they will say before they say it now. I chat with baggers all day and learn their new lies and angles. Most are OBTUSE like their brains The Kochs and others have spent MANY MILLIONS pushing ther lies and paying people to help. This is a FACT!
You have hit the nail on the head. The Tea Party is a Koch Brothers creation. They fund all of it. Citizens United was funded by them. They are seeking to take over our government and democracy to make sure their own policies are enacted. That is lower corporate taxes and the elimination of all or most regulations. They conduct secret bi-annual conclaves to get out the word. They and their corporate brethren own the Republican party. The Tea Partiers think they are demonstrating for good government when they are actually doing the Koch Brothers bidding. They go about in ignorant bliss of this fact. One of the Kochs in the last meeting told the gathering that 2012 will be the war of all wars to befeat Barack Hussein Obama. They have taken it to the level of a holy war. These 2 men are the epitome of evil.
Jon calls the Koch Brothers friends and he KNOWS they are EVIL!! Sorry Jon we know your agenda BUSTED!
PoliticsNOW
‘’Bush Signed Tarp?’’ Congress ( democrat majority controlled including senator obama )passed tarp, $700 million to save the banking industry. The bill required any funds returned to the treasury to be used to pay down the debt. The Democrats and Obama spent the money.
The Stimulus package ,$858 billon now is $ 1 trillion , all spent by the Democrats from 2009 to the present. It was reported that each job produced by the stimulus cost the taxpayers $ 200,000 per job. When the Democrats took control of Congress in Jan. 2007 unemployment was 4.6% and rose to 7.8% .In jan.2009 Obama and a super majority Democrat congress took office and passed the stimulus package. Today unemployment is 9.1%, that‘s a fact.
.
HSchneider
‘’They are seeking to take over our government and democracy to make sure their own policies are enacted.’’
Check this link out, might be of some interest to helping understand who REALLY is running our government.
Tracking Obama stimulus money for renewable energy to China
http://investigativereportingworkshop.org/investig
Creation of Democratic Party funders and operatives and former conservative writer David
PoliticsNOW, Thank you they are evil.
Jon, Yes, the Democrats passed TARP but it was a Bush Administration proposal and one that saved the economy. A huge part of your hated deficit comes from the totally ridiculous Bush Tax Cuts. This is not just a spending problem it is also a GOP created revenue problem. Secondly, I am sick of your cherry picked links. Yes, the Democrats have their fundraisers also. None, let me repeat NONE, have the all encompassing scope of the Koch Brothers. They hold bianuual conclaves to raise tons of money from other wealthy corporate titans and develop policies which they feed to Republican Governors and legislators. These policies are threefold for the most part. To pass laws to restrict Democratic constituencies from voting. This was born from the 2008 election where the GOP was frightened by turnout. The Republicans hate democracy in action. Secondly, lower all taxes on the rich and corporations. They are the only ones who to matter to them. Thirdly, remove all regulations. This is Ayn Rand at work. Let the Koch Brothers do whatever they want to ruin people's health and lives. Unfortunately once they have bankrupted 98% of this country, no one will be able to buy their products. They are evil and attempting to control everything. You can send me every link in the world you want, nothing will change that fact.
Jon, who signed the Bill?
When banks needed money they got it real quick HUH? Now we need money to create jobs and its a problem?
We spent 3 TRILLION on tax breaks and LOST 8 million jobs. The stim created 2 million jobs for 787 billion and some of the money is still there. Plus every dollar spent on unemployment put back 1.61 into the economy. Now we have 2 more million taxpayers not 8 MILLION less due to Bush. You really want to gloat over jobs created by Bush go ahead lie to yourself. I don't care!
Admit it jon the tax cuts FAILED! FACT!!!
PoliticsNOW, I liked the Obama jobs plan though I wish it went further. Hopefully it will be enough. Now let us see if the Republicans will be obstructionist and only agree to the parts they like such as tax cuts. This will be a real test to see if they want to help get America back to work or if they simply want to defeat the President in 2012.
The crazy thing is now we have to beg the right for jobs and to pass the jobs bill.
PoliticsNOW, That is because the Democrats became complacent and allowed the Far Right to steal the messaging last election. President Obama needs to sell this jobs plan hard and plainly explain why it is needed. They also need to immediately refute all the Republican negative comments.
HSchneider and company
.’’President Obama needs to sell this jobs plan hard and plainly explain why it is needed. They also need to immediately refute all the Republican negative comments.’’
President Obama needs to tell THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PLAN.
The plan is only words and the same old stuff that failed. Congress cannot VOTE ON TALK, the plan needs to be written first before Congress can START to debate, amend and then vote. Obama didn’t explain how the plan would be paid for. No just vote and pass the plan. Sort of like the healthcare plan.
Where do YOU ALL get your information from? My replies are the same repetitions that YOU ALL use in your replies. Your replies deal with the past mistakes of the Bush era that Obama ,Reid and Pelosi were a part of, who cares today. The people need jobs TODAY. THE REPUBLICANS have a plan on paper and approved, Cap, Cut and Balance.
The Democrats have NO 2012 BUDGET, the plan for 2012 spending. Obama has no 2012 budget too, it’ all SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
BE NICE, I don’t know or follow the Koch brothers.Obama and the Democrats have George Soros and the AFL-CIO unions. Here’s a link for you to understand the other side.
Creation of Democratic Party founders and operatives and former conservative writer David ….
Jon, Ah, as I expected the truth according to Jon. Truth is only what Jon proclaims it to be. You have become a broken record. His jobs plan will be sent to Congress next week. Is it similar to other ideas? Yes, but we need this and he is going to accept spending offsets to pay for it. Corporate America is sitting on 2 trillion dollars in cash. They are being given incentives to hire through tax credits. Infrastructure projects for our crumbling bridges, roads, and schools. We NEED this. I wrote about some of these things in a previous Hub. What does Jon write? Snipe, snipe, snipe. Save your links. They are your cherry pcked nonsense. Cap, cut, and balance ties the government's hands and is horrible policy. I would have proposed a bolder jobs plan but this will work for now. Independent agencies estimate that it could add 1 million jobs once fully implemented. We NEED this. Unfortunately the Republicans in Congress are bought by the Koch Brothers so they NEED to defeat the President. The way they do that is to keep the economy in the doldrums. They are selfish and unpatriotic.
HSchneider
Did you watch the President’s speech, if you did then you would understand that the man was disingenuous to demand Congress to ‘’ pass the American jobs act now’’. Obama threatened Congress that he will take the cause to the American people. On Friday he was in Virginia doing exactly that.
Everything that he proposed is old stuff that has not brought the economy from the brink. Congressman Cantor reported that there is no written bill as Obama indicated in his speech. MORE SMOKE AND MIRRORS. Blaming the Republicans for the delays is all bull. The bills that Obama talks about are in the Senate waiting for Reid to debate and approve for Obama’s signature. The next time the president refers to the trade bills, he needs to go through the pile of paper work on his desk.
WHO ARE They are selfish and unpatriotic. B O AND REID?
Jon, The President was strenuously making his point that the people of this country needed this jobs plan. He knows that he must go very far in his rhetoric to stress the critical nature of unemployment and economic stagnation at the present time in our country. He was putting the Republican House's feet to the fire. Was this partially political theater? Of course it was. But he knows the House will fight him on anything. They are the hypocrites. President Obama said the bill will be sent to the Congress next week. Some of the bill will be old stuff but that does not mean it is bad. We need to get money off the sidelines and get people hired. That is what is important not your zealous budget balancing at all costs nonsense. Yes, I listened to the speech and applauded. I wish the plan was bigger and bolder but the President operates on the grounds of political possibility. I operate on the grounds of Eric Cantor and the Tea Party faction will block all so why not hit them with the biggest plan possible.
HSchneider
Check this out, may help you to understand and get by the propaganda. On tweeter
With $450 billion jobs plan on the table, Fox News analysis shows GOP backed most of Obama's past spending measures. http://fxn.ws/prKPHX
Jon, the GOP is now on the defensive to either come up with jobs or shut up and take the beatings they will deserve at the polls next year. No silly ideological stances, the leftwing 'red meat' to the working man is jobs or do you want more GOP rhetoric and excuses> Your peoples' back is up against the wall this time, Jon. I want the president to make the case from coast to coast as to who is delivering the bacon and who is delivering the BS. By the way, I wouldn't believe anything Faux news said if my life depended upon it! have a nice one...
Jon, I am not going to check out a FOX News site. They are the propaganda arm of the Republican party. Again you are cherry picking facts from questionable sites. Let the GOP back this plan and get this nation back to work.
Cred2, Thanks for that and as I just wrote I agree with you on FOX News. The President needs to push for this plan hard all the way, not just for a week. He also must not let the GOP accept the tax cuts and nothing else. Mr. President, do not give in. Let's see, the President will run on a jobs plan and the GOP can run on the Ryan plan to destroy our social safety net. That is a campaign that I want to see.
Jon (the Suit) is barking up the wrong tree again. He can't bark strong enough to bark back at Big Liberial Dogs. He will soon tuck his tail.
You know the Koch brothers and company through their PACS spent 50 MILLION on pushing Muslim Hate and framing Obama as a Muslim. Talk about wasteful spending. Teabags don't really care about Debt.
Thank you Junko. I keep hearing the same things from Jon and we go round and round in circles. Jon criticizes the President for everything and he simply wants a balanced budget no matter the consequences. I eventually want a balanced budget but I do not want to take our economy down nor do I want our social safety net destroyed in the balance.
PoliticsNOW, the Koch Brothers will do anything to defeat the President and advance their agenda. They have no conscience and are evil criminals. I wish their activities and businesses were investigated more thoroughly.
HSchneider and Company
''Love is a many splender thing ''. Until you all wake up to the truth, there is no sense having a discussion with blockheads. To follow '' THE MAN '' or someone without question is an idiotic assumption of not understanding the TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH.
Have a great day only if you seek the TRUTH.
Jon, No one is following the man. We are all skeptics. You are simply jaded against the President. Everything he does and says is wrong to you automatically. We in the Progressive community have been highly critical of him for his compromising. Your mind is rigid and strictly and simply controlled by statistics you get from FOXNews and other conservative sources. A President needs to be concerned about all aspects of his nation. It would help you to develop a more nuanced perspective on things.
Hubbers
WAIT UNTIL THE BILL IS SCORED BY THE CBO before you understand the President's plan is the same one he presented on Dec. 4, 2009 and May 13, 2010. Stimulus 1 failed to produce jobs. Jan 2009 unemployment was 7.8%, today it is 9.1%. On last Thurs the President urged Congress to approve his plan. Today, 9/12/11 at a brief press conference ( no questions allowed ) in the rose garden, President Obama produced an UNBOUND copy of the American Jobs Bill held together with a large paper clip ( what a joke ).The bill was on it’s way to Congress today, not prior to his speech to Congress on last Thurs. President Obama announced that he would take his plan to the people and urged the people to call their representatives to ‘’ pass the bill’’. That’s called Obama campaign style propaganda.
Just another Hollywood production for all to see how Congress needs to take immediate action on passing HIS BILL.
SOMEHOW PRESIDENT OBAMA FORGETS PAY-GO LAW and the recent agreement he signed into law , THE NATIONAL DEBT BILL.
In another week he will present more information about the bill that he wants Congress to approve, another bigger joke. Stayed tuned!
Jon, No matter what it shows or what it might do, you will criticize his plan because you want to take our governmental spending back to the stone age. That is the premise of all of your comments. I want the budget restructured to both be balanced and to stimulate growth and jobs. Yes, we will see how it is scored. It does not matter because the House Republicans will only agree to spending cuts and tax cuts and reject the rest. The President should reject that and insist on corporate tax breaks along with the rest of his plan in its entirety. It is time for a bold plan over mindless cutting.
Jon likes the tax cuts for the rich we put on the credit card. He is still holding out for the trickle down.
If we can spend 200B in Iraq fixing ther roads we can do it here.
Just think Jon, when BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA wins again in 2012 you will have plenty to still bitch about. How about you ask your own party for a jobs plan. Use you energy in a more positive way. O wait they have NO PLAN!
PoliticsNOW, We need to have the entire plan passed in its entirety or close to it. I was alarmed to hear a report a little bit ago that the President might be open to passing this in a piecemeal fashion. That would be terrible. The Far Right House would allow only their favorite parts to pass with only spending as offsets. That would be capitulation to them. I will be very angry with the President if he allows that.
Lets hope he shows the strong Obama. His election counts on it. He can't let the Corporate Teabaggers control the situation. Sucks the dems did not come out in 2010. With all the Koch money poured into the elections it was a tough one. Plus all the baggers lied. If they said they were going to break unions. Things could have went different. Now it will take years to purge them out.
It is going to be difficult, PoliticsNOW. I just watched the Lawrence O'Donnell show and he said it is almost inevitable that his bill will be broken up into smaller bills. Lawrence worked for years on the Hill and he knows how it works. I hope the President remains strong and insists on all of it coming to him to be signed.
We need to clone Bernie Sanders and replace the other 99 fools.
Hschneider
‘’I just watched the Lawrence O'Donnell show and he said it is almost inevitable that his bill will ‘’ ’’Lawrence worked for years on the Hill and he KNOWS how it works. I hope the President remains ‘‘.
MSNBC is by far the worst cable show to watch for fair and balanced political comments. Nobody with a half a brain will ever get any ideas of what the truth is in Washington. Lawrence O'Donnell, on many occasions is a radical reporter/commentator in the dung of political journalism.
Here is an update on the President’s bill, smoke and mirrors, nothing new about all the fallacious announcements that Obama has made in the past week.
President Obama calls the payroll cuts a tax cut, true but not the WHOLE TRUTH. Think About It,
Obama wants to continue the pay roll tax deduction for WORKING taxpayers. The unemployed DON'T GET a tax break or cut. Also note what REALLY is happening. The US Treasury is taking money FROM the General Fund and transferring funds to the Social Security Trust Funds to make up for the tax cuts for working citizens. Result is that WE the tax payers are indirectly paying for the tax breaks . Obama has proposed closing the Social Security Trust Fund and replace it with the payroll taxes destined for the SS fund to be incorporated into the general fund. How to pay for the IOU’s in the drawers will be interesting because of what the paper will be worth ( $50 TRILLION unfunded liabilities ).Listen to Obama and the Democrats will bring socialism to the USA under the rule of the Chinese.
NOTE that the tax cuts are short term as all of the tax credits and breaks in the Obama plan. The Democrats in Congress have been told by the President that the American Jobs Bill in its present form MUST be passed as presented by the administration. Members were on the floor last night ( shown on C-Span ) making speeches as to the need for passing the bill.
The truth is that the process is a circle in the same building. The worker keeps a portion of the payroll tax money, the treasury borrows an equivalent amount to put into the trust fund and the workers on unemployment, if Obama gets the unemployment benefits approved gets a check from the government. All coming from increasing the deficit unless the super committee can find cuts to cover the expense.
On Thurs the President said ‘’this is the bill that Congress needs to pass’’, ‘’ no games, no politics no delays’’. REALLY, one would have to be STUPID to believe that statement.
‘’The President should REJECT that and insist on corporate tax breaks along with the rest of his plan in its entirety. It is time for a BOLD plan over mindless cutting.’’
The President and the Senate have not presented a 2012 budget , so where is the money coming from? The Republicans have a plan and a 2012 budget that has been sent to the Senate. President Obama talks, the Senate is silent and the only part of the US Government working is the House of Representatives. THAT’S A FACT
Wake up hubbers, try to come to a conclusion that someone is not doing the job that our elected officials were sent to Washington for. Procrastinating will not get the country back to work.
Have a good day and try to find the truth before it's too late!
PoliticsNOW, Bernie Sanders is excellent but I would not go so far as to say I would get rid of the rest. I wish the rest of this country would stop voting in these right wing reactionaries.
Jon, MSNBC does have a left leaning bent. I admit that. To say that all of its programs are garbage proves you are a conservative partisan. FOX News is the Republican propaganda arm. The only one any good on that network is Shepard Smith because he plays it straight. They are the media mouthpiece for the Republican party and the Tea Party. MSNBC again is left leaning and I do not watch it all. I like Morning Joe, Chris Matthews, and Lawrence O'Donnell. I am at least pragmatic about this. FOX has nothing like Morning Joe that gives both sides. Do not give me that FOX has Juan Williams. He is their token liberal. CNN is the best network because they play it down the middle. You are a conservative robot. You called MSNBC dung. I had respect for your opinions. I just lost it with that sophomoric dung reference. You have no objectivity. You have written long comments and said nothing but more of the same. You simply spew your deficit cutting monotony. The President is trying to implement many points to get employment up. It does not matter if his tax cuts are long or short term. I am tired of only receiving simplistic and redundant points that you make on my Hub and others every day. I used to care but I never hear anything new. I guess coming up with new ideas of your own is, in your words, above your pay grade.
HSchneider
Please don't read something in my responses that I haven't said.
1 reference to dung ----O'Donnell and you can add Matthews,
2.’’CNN is the best network ‘’ sorry Fox News has more viewers than all 3
Fox news ‘’ fair and balanced , YOU decide ‘’
3 ‘’Shepard Smith because he plays it straight.’’ how about Cavuto and a few others. love Cavuto, has a Dem and Republican on and asks the same questions.
4.Fox News is the only ONE that will show past clips of what the President says about a subject, yesterday and up to the present ( IN THE FLESH ). Any of the mainstream media will never show all sides of Barack Obama or any clips top support a discussion. The truth is what you see, the whole truth not a cherry pick.
5. Try C-Span, Fox News Business on sat morning, your local newspaper business sections . Whitehouse. Gov is ALL PROPAGANDA and more!
Today in North Carolina, the President (highest office in the land ), Barack Obama told the college audience ‘’if you love me ( is he a king or dictator),you got to help me pass this bill’’,’’ it’s about giving the American people a win’’. ‘’we have been in a national crisis for 3 years’’, ‘’we need action now’’.
President Barack Obama taught Constitutional law at Chicago University. There is absolutely no way Congress can pass ANY law until it is written and sponsored. Next, it has to be approved to go to committee after which, upon approval of the Speaker and the Majority Leader in the Senate , Senator Reid, a bill requires their approval to even go to the floor for debate, amend and vote. In order to move to the President’s desk ,both the House and the Senate jointly need to pass the legislation.
The President does what he does best. He is in campaign mode ,’’it’s time for action now’’. His actions today were disingenuous to Congress, the people and was a pitiful example of incompetence, irresponsible and disrespect of the highest office of the country, the Presidency.
The US Constitution is the foundation of our government, somehow the President don’t follow it. It’s about checks and balances.
I Respect your opinions but realize that I don’t provide solutions, solutions are for our elected officials to work out. Remember the majority vote will make something into law.
Jon, Your comments prove that all you are willing to listen to is Right Wing opinion news. Calling MSNBC dung proves you are not a mature man but in fact a juvenile. Just because FOX News has the highest ratings proves nothing. It just shows that conservatives all listen to FOX while the rest ofthe citizenry get their news from diverse sources. FOX using the motto "Fair and Balanced" does not make it so. They are the media arm of the Republicans and the Tea Party. They employ future GOP candidates for the Presidency. They are TOTALLY biased. I used to listen to you because I agreed with some and debated other issues with you. Now you have proven to me that you are a Conservative close-minded hack. You have disappointed me. Here are the facts. The President submitted a jobs plan. Yes the Congress will split it up because they have rules on these things. You know where I first heard this from. Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC. The same man you called dung. He has more experience in Congress than most members now have. The President is allowed to submit any bill he wishes and to campaign for it. That is not unconstitutional. The Congress then does what they have to do. The Republican House will block what they don't want and pass the rest. This is because they promote Corporate America and not the vast majority of Americans. The GOP is in the pockets of Corporate America. That is why the American Jobs bill was always a dead issue. The Republican party is now totally corrupt.
HSchneider
''The Republican party is now totally corrupt.'' REALLY
Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC WILL never report.
‘’when the government intrudes into the private sector it then creates the conditions for corruption and that's how GE managed not to pay any taxes in the US.’’
The head of G E is Mr. Immelt, who heads the Obama jobs committee. Another interesting news article in our local business section reported on 9/17/11:
GE SIGNS PACTS IN RUSSIA ON ENERGY AND HEALTH CARE
GE HAS SECURED 2 SEPARATE DEALS IN RUSSIA THAT COULD GENERATE BETWEEN $ 10 BILLION AND $15 BILLION IN SALES.
The energy deal allows GE to manufacture and sell NATURAL GAS TURBINES in the country. The Healthcare deal clears GE to make and sell high-tech medical DIAGNOSTIC equipment. The PRODUCTS WILL BE BUILT IN RUSSIA.
NOTE that GE has received $billions of the Stimulus funding and has paid $0 taxes last year.
GE recently closed a plant in upper new York , and closed another one in Ohio and moved the jobs to China.
During the height of the Iraq war, GE was selling equipment and parts to Iran that were showing up in Iraq being part of the enemies arsenal.
Why isn’t our government investigating this company and their chief executives? GE was a huge campaign donor to the Obama campaign.
Wake up America, our Congress is AWOL?
Repubs are so corrupt they blackmailed the country to get what they want over the debt ceiling which needs to go so they can't do it again.
Jon, The root of all corruption in this country is corporate money. They now control our elections due to the corrupt Citizens United decision. It is estimated that secret PAC's will outspend the candidate campaigns by more than 2-1. The Republicans will now be in the pockets of Corporate America. All of these trends that you rail against will be worse under these bought and paid for politicians. I agree that GE should be keeping jobs here but that is not President Obama's fault. This trend is widespread throughout Corporate America and they are mostly Republican. Our Congress is AWOL? Remember that is because the GOP now blocks everything.
PoliticsNOW, the GOP is now totally bought and paid for by Corporate America. Their campaigns will have much more secret money than regular money. We can thank the Koch Brothers and Justices Scalia and Thomas for that. They brought this corruption on our country to control our democracy and government.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiWx1RSa8xM
Republican Voter living in a bubble
jon is the guy in the bubble
PoliticsNOW, Thanks for the Bill Maher link. Republican voters are mesmerized by FOX News and Talk Radio and listen to nothing else. Therefore they follow GOP policies that are harmful to themselves. I try to read many different websites, TV stations, and newspapers. Yes, this also includes FOX News, The Wall Street Journal, and the National Review. I have always felt that one must constantly read and watch all points of view to have a well rounded viewpoint. No citizen should be a "bubble" voter.
You are welcome time for a rant.
As long as the GOPers push this myth and lie that the WEALTHY creates JOBS if we give them these continued tax breaks and pitiless fools buy into it, nothing is going to get better. If during Eisenhower's term they COULD pay 67% and WAS PROSPEROUS they can DO the same now. Now they get what?, 12% WHILE WE PAY UP TO 35%. No crap has to change and their WHINING be dammed. If they want their 12% ALL they got to do IS CREATED JOBS, in this country and for it's people. But naw they want to stiff us with tax increases while they pay nothing. This is what we get WHEN we GIVE power to WEALTHY people to MAKE laws that govern us.
You are right PoliticsNOW. The wealthy retain their wealth and do not invest. It is a myth. That is why the plans I have advocated for in past Hubs include higher taxes especially on the wealthy. An example of this is the elimination of the Bush Tax Cuts.
HSchneider
STILL NASTY AS EVER BUT I ENJOYED THE DEBATE.
CHECK THIS OUT.
Maybe one should consider the government putting some effort in doing their job. Stop spending what you do not have and start cutting the waste out of government .
Two items of concern to question the government and the Obama Administration.
ALL THE TROUBLES HAVE BEEN CREATED in Washington.
1.Costly Regulations Cost Us American Jobs
http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/regulations
2.The Senator Coburn Report July 21, 2011
DEFICIT WASTE IN the US GOVERNMENT see video
Back in the black, the SOLUTION
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
H.R. 2681 is one small part of the House Republican Plan for America’s Job Creators. Unlike the plan that President Obama has been touting in recent weeks, our approach does not rely on stimulus spending, nor will it raise taxes on job creators.
The government needs revenue to pay for government. There are $ billions of unspent Stimulus money. The Stimulus Package ended Sept.30, 2011. Will Congress and Obama return the $ billions to the US Treasury to lower the national debt as required by the bill?
Pay-Go legislation signed by Obama needs to be enforced by Congress. No doubt that the Republicans will attempt to follow the law. Will Obama and the Democrats do the same?
Jon, The Obama Administration is considering cutting regulations already. Certainly not as much as you would want. Government has a proper role in policing companies so they do not hurt the citizenry and play fair. The new financial regulations are essential in preventing another financial meltdown and did not go far enough. Cutting waste and fraud is always a good thing. Pay Go is an abdication of Congress's responsibilities. If they want to pay for something though, they should raise taxes.
Most of the regulations that ae in place now the GOP passed Jon. Please explain if the GOP care about jobs, why attack the post office and risk 120,000 more? You will have no answer JON! Because there is no good reason to. Stop being a mouthpeice for people that don't care about you. Too bad you or your wife don't work for the post office and may be one of those people that lose their job. You would be singing a different tune. If the GOP destructive policies affected you, YOU WOULD CHANGE!
As long as its other people suffering no problem.HUH?
PoliticsNOW, You are right that a lot of the older regulations were written by Republicans. Not in the last Bush Administration. They wrote and enforced nothing. Regulations should be reviewed from time to time to eliminate out of date and redundant regulations.
Since 2009 the Obama Administration has added 25,000 pages of NEW government regulations, approximately 40 NEW regulations per day. The cost to businesses is about $160,000 per year. The President, Barack Obama has brought change to America, many NEW regulations change rules in environmental issues such as clean water, air and food. MORE red tape in acquiring permits, government leases and environmental reviews have NOT helped to put people back to work in the production of energy and other industries.
The President has NOT kept to his promises to reduce regulations on business. Placing additional taxation and regulations will NOT force the companies to rehire.
One needs to get beyond the Propaganda and the news media.
Jon, That is because the Bush Administration let industries of all stripes run amok for 8 years. We need protections against their greed and disdain for the citizenry. Many of the regulations are on financial services that brought our economy down.
HSchneider
'' Many of the regulations are on financial services''
THE HOUSING MARKET was the first to go, high oil prices added (speculators) and than the financial industry. Regulations were in place but Government looked the other way and allowed the cheating and fraud.
DODD AND FRANK WAS DEEPLY involved, yet they walked free as did the managers at FANNIE AND FREDDIE.
A correction: 2007and 2008 the Democrats had majority control of the government, Bush did absolutely nothing to veto anything that Pelosi and Reid pushed thru Congress. The recession started in Dec 2007, it only took the Dems 12 months for unemployment to go from 4.6% to 7.6%
Under Obama‘s watch ( a super majority Congress for 2 years ,2009.2010 and still a majority in the Senate today ).Three million more in poverty, 2.4 million houses lost in foreclosure, record bank closings,4 million in bankruptcy, 4.2 million in debt and 2.2 million lost jobs. In 2008, Obama promised to solve the economy, put people back to work and balance the budget. THE GREAT UNITER is nothing more than the great divider, can we agree to that?
Jon, First of all, President Bush vetoed almost everything that the majority Democrats pushed through in 2007-2008. This after vetoing nothing the previous 6 years. The economy sunk to recession because of the Bush Administration's lack of regulation. It was falling rapidly as President Obama took office. It has not improved substantially because the housing market is still structurally depressed.
Banks are not loaning either. Obamas jobs plan frees up money. I can't believe we have to fight for a jobs plan the GOP are pathetic obstructing all they can an Jon has no arguemnt to that. Over 100 fillibusters and abortions bills is about it.
PoliticsNOW, It is pathetic that the banks were bailed out with TARP and now they are not lending. They are also fighting tooth and nail to weaken the new financial reform laws.
HSchneider
Don't you get tired of making excuses and blaming Bush. The Democrats have had 2/3's control of the government since 2007.The House has approved 12 jobs bills that the Senate has yet to debate, amend or vote on. Obama says the Republicans are holding up job legislation, who’s telling white LIES?
Keep in mind that the Tarp money ( $700 billion ) was administered by the Obama administration . It was the majority Democrat Congress that approved the Tarp bill. The banking industry only took $300 billion of the funds, Obama and company bailed out the auto industry and did not return unused money back to the treasury as required by the legislation. When Obama took office he and the Dems (a super majority control )pushed thru the $ 785 billion stimulus that grew to $1 trillion.
The Republicans have had control of 1/3 of the government since Jan 1,2011 and Obama continues to blame them for his inability to lead our country. The only thing that he is good at is campaigning, organizer of radicals and representing the needs of the unions and big business.
Check it out
Liberate Wall Street! 10/14/11
Economic Myths of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/index.ht/v/1217932957001/wall-street-protesters-economic-myths/?playlist_id=87530
Sunday 10/16/11 at 3pm and midnight.
Jon, Don't you get tired of hopping from Hub to Hub continually adminstering the same misleading cherry picked so-called facts. They are meaningless and false. The Bush Administration regulated nothing which led to the housing bubble and financial meltdown. The groundwork though was laid by the Clinton Administration and Alan Greenspan when they gutted Glass-Steagall. The economy will not turn around until the housing market does. These iarethe facts along with the concerted effort by banks and corporations to hold on to their hoards of funds.
HSchneider
The FDIC recently close 4 more banks, a total of 80 so far.
Jon, That is a reflection on this slow economy due to the depressed housing market.
http://www.menafn.com/qn_news_story.asp?storyid=%7
Banks are raising interests now. I thought you might find this a good read.
PoliticsNOW, The banks are finding other ways to milk their clients after the financial reform bill was enacted. This includes interest rates and especially onerous fees.
HSchneider
The financial banking bill will close a lot more banks ( neighborhood small banks )before the end of the year. Obama was in North Carolina today,Oct.17,2011, blaming the banks, wallstreet and the Republicans. The Man has no backbone, he's in campaign mode traveling on your and taxpayer money. One has to listen to the half truths and lies about passing his jobs bill. ''The Man'' definitely IS NOT the great uniter that he promised in 2008. Obamacare was exposed in that the calculations that the Obama Administration used were flawed and that parts of the law will need to be changed. To be continued.
PoliticsNOW
Our jobs are going to China, maybe one should consider working in China. There are many US companies ( FRIENDS OF OBAMA ) there. The communist way of life seems to be what the protesters are looking for, they need to march on Washington. Obama won’t mind, he’s not likely to be in town.
PS Still looking for an answer ‘’Where do YOU ALL get your information from?’’
hubbers
I wrote on June 31, 2010
Just how has OBAMA done in fulfilling the promises that Obama made in the 2008 campaign to be elected. TODAY in 2011 THE MESSAGE IS still THE SAME as to
what President Obama promised the American people if he would be elected. NOTE, HE WON THE PRESIDENCY.
Obama said that his administration will be OPEN and TRANSPARENT, he will rid Washington of the lobbyist, provide JOBS, FIX the ECONOMY and it won't be business as usual in Washington when he is elected.
For all of the above, he deserves an 'F'.
If someone can defend that record sensibly, let's hear from you
To his accomplishments in the past 18 months let's add.
Promised unemployment not to go over 8.0% now 9.9% TODAY DOWN to 9.1%
Government take over of student loans banking industry loses 33,000 jobs
Increase deficit to $3.5 trillion bush left a $630 billion deficit
CBO revised healthcare costs will increase deficit $1.5 trillion
Bailed out union pension funds $300 billion ( taxpayer borrowed money)
After spending $1 trillion in stimulus money , much of which went to saving teachers jobs, fireman jobs and police jobs, TODAY , President OBAMA’S jobs bill wants another $23 billion more. Congress will not pass his request, why should they. Paying state public workers are NOT the FEDERAL Government’s and taxpayer's responsibility, IT’S the STATE’S TAXPAYERS responsibility
America needs to wake up and get by the propaganda that the politicians are sending out to the public.
Just olde history less we forget.
Jon, The financial reform bill has nothing to do with the banks that are failing now. That is part of the housing mess. As usual, you twist your facts to suit your political view. These are small banks not affected by the financial reform bill.
Jon, The jobs going to China date back to Republican policies. You are simply a Conservative propagandist. Nothing more. Nothing less. The Obama stimulus plan worked some to stem job losses but was watered down by Conservatives so its impact was lessened greatly.
I need a passport to find the Bush jobs if I can find them at all. Jon really is just a lying mouthpiece for the right. Really bad at it to.
PoliticsNOW, The Bush jobs were always a mirage and they quickly disappeared after the financial collapse.
"Amendment 14 of the United States Constitution states that the validity of the public debt shall not be questioned."
Does it not seem odd that a Constitution should be amended to add a phrase that reads "shall not be questioned" when the original document was designed expressly to allow questioning, specially wrt power?
I am wondering why you defend the 14th.
2 "interest is paid first"
does that not indicate who is really in charge, when Tim Geithner invokes the 14th amendment to pay banks before soldiers? is there no contractual responsibility by the banks which benefit from the 14th, to make sure there is no meltdown, as a condition of debt repayment?
3. let's say I need $100 to build an economy that will generate $100. Since only the Reserve Bank can issue money, I borrow $100.
But the bank charges 10% interest. So after the economy paid back the principal $100 it must find $10 that does not exist yet. The Bank could reposes 10% from the economy. The economy is now worth 90%. isn't this a case of inherent/persistent/automatic default. Worse, guaranteed by the 14th, in a constitution that was drafted to give us freedom from oppression. If it is not constitutional sabotage it may be constitutional slavery?
4. does sovereign not mean that a nation is free to print money with obligations only to it's people. That's what it used to mean when kings were sovereign, no? What happened?
Thank you for your comments, Pythagarus. Firstly, I defend the 14th amendment because it was designed after the Civil War to guarantee the American war debt amongst many other clauses. The far right Tea Party Republicans were holding this country hostage during the debt ceiling debates and I feel this was tyrannical and wrong. That clause in the 14th would have ended that nonsense. I agree that the Constitution was written to question rights and power. The Ninth Amendment, which I wrote a Hub on, enshrines this in the Constitution. Secondly, I agree that the banks should have responsibility to protect against another meltdown. That is why I am so infuriated that the banks have fought tooth and nail against the financial reform act. It was watered down to start with and they still fight it. Thirdly, I agree that the interest the banks charge is injurious to the nation and a form of gluttony. But to allow default on our national debt would shut us out of global credit markets and would plunge us into a Great Depression or worse. I'm not sure what point you are driving at with your 4th point. Sovereignty means a people's government is free to do as it wishes to fulfill their people's needs. Unfortunately if too much money is printed, inflation results. We need a balance between sufficient liquidity and keeping inflation at bay.
"But to allow default on our national debt"
point 4 argues against default ever occurring. it's also the reason we have a constitution. If you don't see this point, you don't see that even the tea-party has the same sovereign self-determined rights that the constitution gave "americans of like-mind" -- it makes me wary, frankly, but it must be respected for the sake of democracy.
you skipped over the central point i was trying to make in #3. We all believe in liberty... so it's difficult to see that the 14th is NOT about ensuring liberty and etc.
Let's try socratic thought for a moment... What IF the civil war, like the iraq war, was fought by people like you and me (thinking they were holding liberty) but instead it was deceitful -- and the result is the 14th. eg "though shall pay interest even before liberty"?
Here's another slogan "give me interest or you die, not give me liberty or death". If this is the case, the amendments are an instrument that has the power to corrupt the original constitution... and we better make sure the supreme court is on the side of democracy for the people!
"Unfortunately if too much money is printed, inflation results. We need a balance between sufficient liquidity and keeping inflation at bay."
The following should have been the 14th..."balance results from investors making a bad choice and losing the interest and maybe even the principle...." NOT "thou shall not question". The constitution has been corrupted to work for "kings" with one purpose -- to exert absolute power over subjects, democrats or republican, and while Rome burns you squabble over self evident rights such as "debt ceiling".
Pls don't get me wrong, I loved the post, but had to speak my mind.
Pythagarus, I then totally agree with your point 4. We should do everything to never default on our debt. Your point 3 about the 14th amendment being all about liberty is spot on. It was about post-war and post-slavery America. I also agree with you that many of our large financial institutions should have been forced to take haircuts on their loans. Instead they were all propped up with no consequences. Goldman Sachs made money off the entire debacle. The Occupy Wall Street Movement is all about the unfairness of our political and economic systems and changing them to be fair to all and not just the "Kings". Thank you again for your fine comments and the clarification of your earlier points.
HSchneider
It's all about diversion about what is really happening!
Under the leadership of President Obama, the Senate has not presented a budget proposal for 952 days going back to 2009.A 2012 budget has been approved by the Republican House in Feb and sent to the Senate awaiting to be presented to Senate members.
The fact is that 2/3’s of our government is not working in the best interest of the people. Where and when will Congress act to get the promised jobs? Blaming the 1/3 that is working is disingenuous and misleading.
On Dec 15,2011, Congress will need to vote the third time to continue funding the government.
Obama and the Senate has yet to present a 2012 budget. The House passed their 2012 budget in Feb as require by House rules.
Where are the jobs? Check this site. http://majorityleader.gov/JobsTracker/
$15 trillion+ and still counting!
Jon, Welcome back. Unfortunately you are still coming to the debate with the same tired cherry picked facts. The bottom line is that Congress is effectively controlled by the Republicans. Yes, even the Senate. They can and do block everything via the filibuster. Blame the GOP for blocking everything. The reason that the economy has remained weak is the continuing depressed housing market. The rest of your numbers are useless.
If anyone actually cares about data instead of narrative ideology, the housing collapse has been covered extensively by Barry Ritholtz: http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/what-caused
I agree with you and Barry Ritholtz on all of the causes of the financial collapse that he enumerated in his article, AKA. I wrote about these in my article a few months ago concerning the causes of the financial meltdown. My point right now is that the depressed housing market, created by the bubble these causes created, is what is keeping the economy down. The economy will not become robust until this works out. It is such a big mess that it will probably take 5 to 10 years. Thank you for your comments and link, AKA Winston.
HSchneider,
I believe you are right about housing - not only did housing appreciation drive spending but the jobs lost both within construction and even more importantly outside in peripheral businesses cannot be restructured overnight.
Although I'm not an Austrian, I do think they had some things right. This mess certainly looks like the result of malinvestment.
I agree AKA. It began with the Glass-Steagall partial repeal. The banks were then allowed to invest for themselves as they wished. They lost sight of risk and pushed for bad housing mortgages. Both the Clinton and Bush Administrations were guilty here. Greenspan then left interest rates too low for too long after 9/11. This allowed the housing market to skyrocket and everyone got in on the party. Then POP. We are still strongly feeling the effects of the housing bubble popping. There were a few other contributing factors but these were the main catalysts.
HSchneider,
Barry did a terrific job of describing the events that led to the bubble. What he concludes and so few are aware of is how Greenspan's decision to lower rates to 1% and hold them there for a year and the subsequent continued low interest-rate enviroment impacted investment returns. Everyone started scrambling for higher yield than the underperforming U.S. bonds, and when the subprime MBS were given AAA credit ratings it appeared to be free money.
It was this scramble for yield that led to higher demand for MBS and the subsequent loan-to-securitize-to-sell model utitlized by non-bank entities to make home loans, which then led to things like negative amoritization loans and liar loans and ninja loans.
Mind you, the shadow banking system could have been regulated by the Fed, but in keeping with his ideology, Greenspan chose to ignore those duties and allow an unregulated monstrosity to rear its head and prosper. Over 84% of the subprime mortgages from 2006 on until the collapse came from non-regulated, non-bank entities who simply packaged and resold these securities to Wall Street banks.
Add to that the Clinton era abolishment of derivatives oversight (AIG) and the banking industry created the conditions necessary for its own demise with the assistance and the blessing of the US government. Although credit default swaps act like insurance policies, there was never any reserve requirement (and still isn't) for the counterparties. This is what led to the AIG bailout - they sold the insurance but could not pay off the losses.
You are quite correct, AKA. The unregulated derivatives market is a disgrace. They need to be on an exchange. Greenspan is a major culprit in this fiasco though he has been tap dancing around his responsibility for it. As you said, he lowered rates to almost rock bottom. Then he let his Ayn Rand economic philosophies take hold. It worked but only to create the bubble. Then pop goes the weasel. We are living with the results. Great comments, AKA Winston.
hubbers
Thurs. night, Dec.15, 2011, this week on Fox News. The Republican presidential debates from Iowa. Check it out!
FUNDING FOR THE GOVERNMENT, CR#3 ends on Dec,15,2011, Congress needs to vote again to extend funding, Just another Obama/ Congress crisis.
Yes Jon, another funding crisis. My solution is vote the Far Right Tea Party Republicans out of the House of Representatives in November 2012. They block all of the President's initiatives and then will not compromise with him even when he compromises greatly.
HSchneider
The Republican majority House passed the extension of the payroll tax holiday today. Senator Reid said even before he put the bill on the floor for a debate and a vote, the Senate will not pass the bill. Shouldn't all of Senators be given an opportunity to vote, up or down? Since Jan 2011, there has been only 1/3 of the government working for the good of the people. The other 2/3's ( in control since 2007-present ) still hasn't figured out how to pass jobs bills sent to the Senate from the Republican House. Obama blames the Republicans, he needs to go to the Senate and shake things up.
Obama and Senator Reid and Senate Democrats seemed to forget to abide by PAY-GO legislation that they approved in 2010. Pay-go, NO new taxes, any new expenditures have to offset by cutting cost to offset the new spending. In other words cost neutral! ONE MUST TRY TO understand the law.REALLY
2/13/10 2:04 PM EST NOTE ! TODAY IS Dec.13,2011
President Barack Obama is hailing pay-as-you-go BUDGET legislation he signed Friday night as one in a series of crucial steps needed to snap Washington out of a destructive pattern of overspending.
“Now, Congress will have to pay for what it spends, just like everybody else,” Obama said in his radio and Internet address released Saturday morning. “After a decade of profligacy, the American people are tired of
politicians who talk the talk but don’t walk the walk when it comes to fiscal responsibility. It’s easy to get up in front of the cameras and RANT against exploding deficits. What’s hard is actually getting deficits under
control. But that’s what we must do.”
The PAYGO compels NEW spending or tax changes to not add to the federal deficit. Not to be confused with pay-as-you-go financing, which is when a government saves up money to fund a specific project. Under the PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"
or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint. The interest on the national debt is $1 billion a day and rising. The unfunded liabilities of the country is $104 trillion.
President Obama and the Democrats want to pay for it with higher and more fair taxes on the wealthy. The GOP want to slash the length of unemployment benefits and leave taxes alone. They also included the Keystone Pipeline issue which has nothing to do with this issue. That makes this a poison pill and extortion. The Republicans are playing games.
HSchneider
''That makes this a poison pill and extortion. The Republicans are playing games.'' looks like the huffington article??? the propaganda flourishes on the www.
Pay-go law was passed in 2010 by a SUPER MAJORITY DEMOCRAT CONGRESS, meaning no fillibuster allowed. Pay -go means NO NEW TAXES unless offset by cutting budgeted items.
IN 2010 THE TAX HOILDAY was passed with the intent and promises that cuts would take place. The cuts in spending didn’t happen as agreed by the President and the Democrat controlled Congress.
The facts are that the $104 billion savings to WORKING people are actually replaced by the general fund with ALL BORROWED MONEY. A violation of the pay-go laws. Today the trust fund pays out more than it takes in, meaning the government needs to pay back the IOU’s in the trust fund file, again with BORROWED MONEY.
RECENTLY IT WAS reported that Uncle Sam Obama sent $40 billion, BORROWED MONEY , to bail out Greece. WAKE UP, THE TRUTH is a cover-up.
Jon, The fact of the matter is the GOP wants all cuts without any new revenue. You cannot balance the budget that way unless you want to eliminate the middle class.
HSchneider
THE PROBLEMS ARE SPENDING NOT MORE TAXATION!
Costly Regulations Cost Us American Jobs, WHY?
http://www.gop.gov/indepth/jobs/regulations
US GOVERNMENT WASTE adding to the deficits!
Jon, The problem started with the Bush Tax Cuts in 2001. They are the major factor. Spending is a problem but under-taxation is a bigger one. Save your links. They are more right wing propaganda. You seem to think that the more links and statistics you include will prove your points. They do not. I read and watch news and commentary from many sources from many points of view. I know the facts. You are wrong!
HSchneider,
You are wasting your breath. Those who mindlessly repeat these right-wing talking points are believers, followers of a faith, so neither data nor reasoning can change their minds. They appear incapable of critical thinking, so caught up in their confirmation bias they sound like 4-year-olds who put their fingers in their ears and yell, Nyah, nyah, I can't hear you, in response to anything that challenges their beliefs.
I have been telling Jon that but I must admit, he is relentless. It must be of great comfort to people who always KNOW that they are right. There is no gray. It is Black and White and they are on the side of the angels. I will remain listening to all views to come up with more accurate and nuanced positions. Thank you for your comments AKA.
HSchneider
I respect ALL of your opinions, positions AND enjoy the debate regarding the political topic.Many hubbers with opposite ideas are what makes the world go around.The only problems that I have found is information coming from the President's websites and what he says are many times not 100% factual.
''Spending is a problem but under-taxation is a bigger one.''President Obama and the Democrats passed Pay-Go law in 2/13/10. In the debate today, some how they forget the Pay-Go law.SEE ABOVE ''Under the PAYGO rules a new proposal must either be "budget neutral"
or offset with savings derived from existing funds.[1] The goal of this is to require those in control of the budget to engage in the diligence of prioritizing expenses and exercising fiscal restraint''. Note that the Senate and Obama have not passed a 2012 budget.
Have a great day, wishing you a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you also, Jon. The Republicans are driving this budget bus because they are the majority in the House and they effectively control the Senate through the filibuster. The Tea Party has scared the GOP members so much that all of their proposals are designed to be dead upon arrival. The 2012 elections are thus critical to how our government is run. That is why the Koch Brothers and their GOP lemmings are restricting voter rights and pouring money in to deceive voters. Everyone must vote and insist on changing things in 2012. The budget process right now is nonsense on all sides.
HSchneider
''Everyone must vote and insist on changing things in 2012'' I AGREE if they are LEGAL citizens of the country.Many on one side '' wants everyone'' to be able to cast a vote, including non- citizens and illegals. Surely you would not agree to that direction? Illegals cost the government ( taxpayers) over $300 billion a year in receiving government entitlements meant for the poor citizens of our country.
OH, FORGOT, THE CHICAGO WAY , EVEN THE DEAD CAST VOTES.
Jon, The Democrats are attempting to get all LEGAL citizens to vote. They are not attempting top get illegals to vote. You have obviously been drinking the Koch Brothers Far Right Kool-Aid. The GOP are passing laws all over the country to restrict LEGAL voting. They are un-American and un-Democratic. They are also despicable. They claim widespread voter fraud. That has never been true. Get real, Jon. The conservative Republican establishment are dictators in waiting.
HSchneider
You missed the boat on the payroll tax holiday extensions. The Republican House passed the extension for a year. Obama and the Senator Reid's Senate agreed to the extension for 2 months. For your info.
The Republican House recently approved a 1 year extension of the pay holiday and off set the costs by a variety of cuts to pay for the loss of revenue to the trust fund. In addition , the bill stipulated that the Keystone oil pipeline project would proceed. It’s all about JOBS, some 20,000 jobs.
The Senate’s tax holiday bill recently was passed for a 2 month extension of the payroll tax holiday. In addition ,the Keystone project approval would be also delayed 2 months, with the decision to approve the start was not clear. After 2 months of delay, the President would not be required to OK the start of the project. How does the President and the Senate get by with patchwork decisions that have been going on for 3 years?
There are over 20 jobs bills passed by the House sitting in the Senate waiting for Senator Harry Reid to advance the bills. Sorry to say, it’s all about politics and the 2012 election.
The president talks about jobs, in reality he is not fulfilling his promises.
Obama says ‘’I know your hurt ‘’ referring to the 14 million out of work. Those 14 million aren’t getting a tax break. They are getting ‘’the Obama living wage ‘’ unemployment checks. Obama’s family Hawaiian vacation ( one of many ) will cost the taxpayers about $4 million.
Jon, I did not miss any boats and your comments are simply white noise. Do you work for FOX News or the Republican party or the Tea Party? All I read from you is their false talking points. President Obama is not fulfilling his promises for jobs because the House blocks everything. The blame is at their feet. The House bills are blocked because they are Far Right Tea Party nonsense. They would also kill jobs. The Keystone pipeline is not just about jobs and energy but also about preserving our ecosystem.
HSchneider ( My Friend )
First, let me wish you a merry Christmas and a happy New Year.
I recently replied to another hub, maybe you will be able to understand the truth about the government. There is hope for you and the many more in the political world that JUST DON‘T GET IT..
The Bush tax cuts argument should be buried, let Obama handle his budgets and be responsible for the administration's own legislation. Bush has been gone 3 years and now should be history.
ALL of the tax breaks that Obama has engineered was a pick and choose for whom the tax cut or credits involved ONLY SPECIFIC mentions. Tax issues should be equal for all and benefit all. Obama can call it anything he wants to but the fact is that there are the jobs issue. The economy and jobs were an issue in 2008. Obama run on change and other great sounding proclamations. On 60 minutes he proclaimed that in his first 3 years he has accomplished more than 3 other great presidents.
Obama and the Senate passed a payroll extension for 2 months. The President praised the Senate, what a joke. The House passed the payroll extension for 1 year and made cuts to pay for it. Obama, now blames the House for holding up his jobs bill. One must get by the propaganda when he blames Congress. Congress is the Senate and the House. Since Jan.2011, the House has passed 25 jobs bills and has passed a 2012 budget. The Senate hasn’t pass a budget for 3 years, the 2012 budget has not been presented for debate.
Obama needs to call a spade a spade, the Senate is NOT DOING THE JOB. As a matter of fact, under control of the Democrats,2/3’s of our government hasn’t done the job since 2007.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you also Jon. I am not going to bury the Bush Tax Cuts because they are the root of our budget deficit and wealth disparity in this country. Yes, the wars exacerbated it but the cuts were the root. I do not understand why you must consistently state the same things every day in my comments section. I will reiterate my same point again. The Tea Party House members are under the thumbs of the Koch Brothers and Grover Norquist. They want to cut all taxes and strip the social safety net to the middle and lower classes. This will successfully create a two class system and will cause a civil war. This economy is slowly reviving but the GOP wants this blocked so they can elect another President. Housing is keeping the economy from growing faster. The Senate will deal with the House bills when they come back to sanity. That will not occur until after the 2012 election. The House rejecting a two month extension on unemployment extensions and the payroll tax cuts will doom the lower class and hurt our economy. That is the wish of your precious little House Republicans. Speaker Boehner is under the thumb of the power hungry Eric Cantor who wants his job. Your House is dysfunctional. The House is the root of our political problems in this country. That and the Koch Brothers money that put them in office.
HSchneider
Love your comments and enjoy mine even better. One day the TRUTH will set you free, hoping that the day is in the near future.
BUSH TAX CUTS 2001 AND 2003 ‘’ a very long time ago ‘’
If Obama and the Congress DECIDES TO RAISE TAXES for every one, consider the tax increase as an Obama tax increase. After 3 years in charge , Obama needs to be held accountable. REALLY, the mainstream media hasn’t seen it or reported that way. One must try to get around the propaganda.
The Senate recently passed a payroll tax holiday for 2 months and extended the delay of a 20,000 job project ( keystone pipe line ).Obama and the Dems are fighting for a 2 month extension and leaving the keystone project (20000 jobs ) without approving the project. Obama wants jobs ( really, ready start jobs) so why isn’t he supporting the House passed a 1 year bill that had everything in the bill, tax holiday and keystone jobs, and was paid for as required by Pay-Go legislation/law signed by the President on 2/13/10.
New EPA regulations on power plants will shut down 30 coal fired plants. In these troubled times, to do so will cost many thousands of jobs and raise your electric costs. The keystone pipe line project after over 2 years and millions of spent dollars to develop the project, a shovel ready project, has been delayed by the President and other agencies. The House Republican bill that was passed includes a 1 year extension of what was agreed to by the President. Today President Obama is fighting for a Senate passed bill for only 2 months. An idiot could see that the best move is by the House.
PS The mainstream media is reporting something a little different as are the internet blogs.
Jon, The Bush Tax Cuts are NOT long ago. They are still in effect and destroying our country TODAY. So stop the long ago nonsense. The EPA regulations on power plants and the hold-up of Keystone are in place to keep our air and environment clean. Obviously you do not care about that for yourself and your children. Do not include the word idiot or other such names in any further comments. Keystone is shovel ready to destroy our ground water. I guess we can just drink bottled water, beer, and soda. FOX News is the phony media. It is the propaganda arm of the Republican and Tea Parties.
HSchneider
The Bush tax cuts were in 2001 and 2003, his first term.
If the Bush tax cuts are so bad ,why did Obama approve signing an extension in 2010? I guess, POLITICS AS USUAL!
Jon, I disagreed with the President on that. He caved to the politics of the hour. He also agreed to it because the economy was so weak. Still it is the major cause of the deficit. The second major cause is the two wars we have waged along with the new and bloated Homeland Security department. How can you deny that the Bush Tax Cuts are a major cause of our deficits? President Clinton ran a huge surplus. President Bush pushed for his cuts and presto, huge deficits. Get real, Jon. They are also a major boondoggle for the wealthy and Corporate America. Keep listening to Faux News and be unelightened.
HSchneider
The Truth Behind The Debt Ceiling Debate
IF ONE FOLLOWS whitehouse.gov, you will be in the spin zone. Fox news has Bill O'reilly except that Fox is'' fair and balanced''. Maybe that's why their ratings surpass all the cable news shows.
Try '' your world with Cavuto'' sometime to get both sides of the story. ''we report, you decide'', how true.
Try faux on Sat. mornings, more discussions by both sides regarding the truth of what is happening in the financial world and government '' investments''. Lastly C-Span 1, 2 and 3 have some interesting subjects, uncut and non-bias news. Someone suggested Rush Limbaugh on the radio, superb conservative reporting opinions.
Hoping for your conversion in the coming months.
ps good hubs, always enjoying the debate! '' fair and balanced''
The President held a press conference ( no questions as usual ) said that the tax extension would save working workers $ 1200 a year , somehow he forgot that the Senate bill was for ONLY 2 MONTHS. The factual savings varies from $20.00 / week to $40.00/ week. The total would save about $180.00 average to a worker. Obama and Congress working hard for the people left Washington, will return in January to re start the negotiations on passing a longer term.
Here’s the real scoop. The Senate passed the bill for 2 months because they could only find enough cuts to offset the expenditure of $ 33 billion. What a waste of taxpayer time and money!
Jon, Here is the real scoop. You are a very deluded person. Rush Limbaugh is a clown and spouts his nonsense for ratings by getting the crazies out. FOX News has higher ratings because conservatives all watch that and only that. You are all robots. I watch all networks and yes, FOX also though to a lesser degree. The GOP and Tea Party are self-immolating themselves both in Congress and in the Presidential primaries. I am enjoying the show.
This article is an informative, nicely documented, sensible, and (most of all) sane analysis of last summer's absurd debt ceiling impasse. Your discussion stands in striking contrast to the proliferation of mindless, know-nothing rants so prevalent from rightwing whackjobs on HubPages and in other forums. I've voted this Up and Interesting.
Your analysis is very close to my own, but I'm considerably to the left of your position (e.g., I oppose any budget cuts for social programs). Nevertheless, I think on this we're basically on the same page.
I tried to make my Hub in tune with the current makeup of Congress which is quite conservative. I would not cut social programs at all in a perfect world. I feel taxes need to go up more than I called for. But I tried to deal in current reality and tried to use a word that the Far Right loathes, compromise. Thank you very much for your kind comments, LHwritings.
HSchneider
''tried to use a word that the Far Right loathes, compromise.''''current makeup of Congress which is quite conservative'' WAKE UP HS
Today the President chided Congress not to derail the recovery. Not once did Obama refer to the Democrats in the Senate holding up 23 jobs bills passed by the House. The House is only one half of the Congress, to people in the know that understand that the other half, the Senate, aren’t getting the job done. Senator Reid should compromise and at least allow the Senators to debate, amend or approve/reject the House jobs bills. That’s the way Congress is suppose to work. The Guy in the Whitehouse should be kicking butts, Harry’s to be exact. Funny how Obama blames the minority, 1/3 of government, rather than the 2/3s who have been in majority control since 2007. To be continued.
Jon, The Tea Party wing refuses to give an inch in their Far Right reactionary demands. There is no negotiating with them. Eric Cantor is undermining John Boehner to get the Speakership by championing their cause. Why is it that you periodically come by and haunt my Hubs and others with your same tired arguments? Nothing you are stating is new. Any new legislation will come after the 2012 elections when the people have decided.
The Republicans are using voodoo, subterfuge, smoke & mirrors, and doublespeak to label a whole array of reactionary measures as "jobs bills". A number of these bills are giveaways to the ultra-wealthy (the so-called 1%), while others would gut environmental protections, safety protections, etc.
The Crooks & Liars website has a useful analysis of the GOP's "jobs bills" claim; see:
Thank you for the link, LHwritings. The thrust of the GOP's programs has always been to give more to the wealthy and corporations so it will trickle down. It has always been a crock. Nothing trickles down. Give the money and tax breaks to the middle and lower classes and they not only will spend it, they have to. That is the way to stimulate the economy successfully. Thank you for your comments, LH.
HSchneider
Obama was taking credit for the good news that unemployment went down to 8.3%. All sounded good until later in the day it was announced by the news media that from Jan. 2009 to Jan. 2012, his administration has lost 2 million jobs. If the government added the 2 million who stopped looking for work ,the unemployment number would be closer to 10%.Those receiving about $250.00 a week for up to 99 weeks ( Obama's living wage for the private sector ) would rather have a job. Obama has no clue on how to correct the situation.
Jon Ewall, what you're reciting is the current Teapot GOP's game with numbers. The Obama administration's record is far from great, but basically their policies have produced a modest reversal from the steep job losses of the Bush-GOP policies.
What the Teapot charlatans do is count the massive job losses of the Bush-GOP-era Great Recession that continued into the early period of the Obama administration in 2009 — the heaviest of which occurred well before Obama's stimulus package kicked in. Even that way-too-weak program has at least reversed the trend of the Great Recession and turned the steep job losses into modest job gains.
The GOP presidential contenders play a kind of sleight-of-hand with all this, portraying Obama's weak but partly successful policies as a total failure, opposing economic stimulus, and proposing to substitute basically "crash & burn" economic policies as a replacement.
The real situation is nicely documented in a well-researched article on Rachel Maddow's blog:
Romney vs. Romney vs. Reality
Jon, The jobs lost in President Obama's first six months in office were caused by the financial meltdown from the Bush Administration. Pinning that on President Obama is intellectually dishonest. They were all the result of the cascading effects of the meltdown. Nothing the Obama administration did in this time period would have curtailed those cuts. Now the GOP in the House is blocking anything the President wants to do so nothing will happen.
Thank you LHwritings. You are exactly correct. Those early massive losses are totally at the feet of the Bush adminstration and the financial meltdown.
HSchneider
THRE YEARS AGO,President Obama was elected on what he was going to do to change the economy around.
on 6/11/11, i wrote a post
With due respect, please stop making excuses for our politicians in Washington. The 2012 budget and the National Debt are priority and yet 2/3s of our government can’t come up with a budget. There is only 1 budget on the table now, it was rejected by the Senate, they are holding up the process. Obama’s budget was voted down by the Senate 97-0, are you aware of that? Obama has not yet submitted a revised budget. The budget he submitted had a $1.6 trillion deficit, Obama is asking to raise the national debt limits another $2.5 trillion. There is enough money coming in to service the national debt. The interest on the National Debt is $8 billion a day, insane to believe we want to raise the debt LIMITS.
the republicans are not holding up anything. the house has passed a 2012 budget ansd 24 jobs bills that harry reid and the president are not allowing senators to vote on, that's a fact. what obama doesn't tell the public isthat he refuses to cut spending as he promissed. obama signed the pay-go law in 2010, read past infomation above. pay-go, any NEW SPENDING HAS TO BE OFFSET BY CUTTING GOVERNMENT, THAT MEANS DEFICIT NEUTRAL!
With due respect, please stop making excuses for our politicians in Washington. The 2012 budget and the National Debt are priority and yet 2/3s of our government can’t come up with a budget. There is only 1 budget on the table now, it was rejected by the Senate, they are holding up the process. Obama’s budget was voted down by the Senate 97-0, are you aware of that? Obama has not yet submitted a revised budget. The budget he submitted had a $1.6 trillion deficit, Obama is asking to raise the national debt limits another $2.5 trillion. There is enough money coming in to service the national debt. The interest on the National Debt is $8 billion a day, insane to believe we want to raise the debt LIMITS.
Jon, Why do you insist on revisiting my old Hubs and other writers Hubs and write the same thing over and over again. Nothing new comes out of you. I have written extensively disagreeing with you and I do not wish to do this with you anymore. I will comment if you have something new. You no longer add anything to discussions. You have no solutions. The Republicans attempted to block everything the first two years and block everything now.
HSchneider
''The Republicans attempted to block everything the first two years and block everything now.''
WRONG AGAIN,Obama and the Democrats had 100% control of the government in 2009 and up to June 2010. They had a super majority control of ALL LEGISLATION, the Republicans could not even filibuster anything, you call it block.TODAY, the Senate and Obama are stalling and blocking 24 jobs bills passed by the House a long time ago.BE FAIR AND BALANCED,try to understand what's going on in the CONGRESS and the Whitehouse.
Once again, Jon, we have gone round and round with this. You are wrong and brainwashed by FOX Propaganda channel. You feel I am wrong. You need new and less tired arguments to convince me differently.
Jon Ewall writes
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Obama and the Democrats had 100% control of the government in 2009 and up to June 2010. They had a super majority control of ALL LEGISLATION
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Let's blast away this myth right now — this was a concocted narrative that even the mainstream media promulgated like some kind of mantra.
There are at least 2 problems.
(1) The Dems did NOT have "100% control of the government". Because of the self-imposed Senate supermajority rule (which even liberal Dems refuse to try to change), the USA now has the most UNDEMOCRATIC government of all advanced nations. A supermajority (with a closely divided legislature, as the Senate was and continues to be, essentially hands control of all legislation to the MINORITY. This minority (GOP plus "Blue Dog" Dems) thus becomes a kind of valve through which everything must pass. The hand on this valve was that of the GOP.
What the Teapot GOP (basically, a collection of rightwing zealots) have done is to hold nearly all legislation hostage unless they get their way — no compromises, Our Way or the Highway. We saw this last summer over the debt limit crisis, where they were quite willing to default on contracts and compromise the debt rating of the USA. They understand that they have control of key legislative "valves", and they intend to use this power.
(2) While the GOP has virtually "purified" itself of moderates (and of course "liberals" long ago), becoming an extremist party of far-right ideologues, the Dems are an absurdly conflicted party with a large contingent of de facto "moderates" and even conservatives (loosely termed the Blue Dogs). Dems pride themselves on having a "big tent" — with the result that these Blue Dogs constitute a kind of Fifth Column for the GOP on crucial issues, such as the budget.
Thus, during the 2009-2010 confrontations over top issues such as budget, stimulus package, healthcare, etc., even with these "GOP" Dems included in their majority, the Dems still didn't have the necessary supermajority. And of course several of these "GOP" Dems persisted in blocking with the Teapot GOP, so the Dems never even came close to getting a clear supermajority on anything like a really effective program — stimulus, healthcare, whatever.
The stimulus package (ARRA) turned out about 1/3 what it should have been. The healthcare bill (ACA, "Obamacare") is such a piece of crap ... don't get me started (it's probably one reason there's so much voter enmity against Obama). The Dems defaulted when they had a chance to "fix" budget issues in the 2010 Lame Duck session, just as they had defaulted when they had a chance to fix the Senate supermajority problem in early 2010.
The Dems blew it — they are culpable, in my view ... but to claim the Dems had "100% control" of the U.S. government is just plain at odds with the reality.
Thank you LHwritings for adding that. I totally agree with you. The Conservative GOP arguments are totally bogus. They manipulate everything.
Thanks, HSchneider. One thing I'll add about the Blue Dog Dems: I really regard these politicians as "old-school" Republicans for the most part, who are no longer welcome in the GOP. In my view, what's happening therefore is that the Democratic Party is becoming a "big tent" containing liberals, moderates, and conservatives — i.e., a moderate-conservative party — vs. the hard-right GOP. Thus you have a new extreme-right GOP facing off against the moderate-conservative right-dominated Dems (even some nominal "liberals" have moved rightward).
That does not bode well for effective, forward-looking policies.
LH, I agree that this trend does not bode well long term for our politics. It bodes very well for the Democratic party for the short term. The GOP has allowed the Tea Party to drag it incredibly far to the right. Actually the Koch Brothers funds most of them so it is a corporate arm. The old Republicans and even conservatives were intellectually solid and I respected them. I usually didn't agree with them but I understood their views. This group is totally anti-intellectual and they are scary. You are right that we need this trend to change to ensure a vibrant democracy. Thank you for your insightful comments.
LHwritings
NOTE that the majority party elected in Congress control what happens in Congress. The President complains of Congress not doing the job and somehow forgets to clarify that Congress is made of the House and the Senate. Never has he mentioned that the Senate is the major problem in moving a 2012 budget and 23 jobs bills passed by the Republican House.
HS
A reply to a Obama supporter, the quotes are his. Just thought you would enjoy it.
‘’It is also amazing how much Obama has done even with the resistance of Congress''
SOME HOW SOMEBODY IS MISSING THE FACTS.
1.The Democrats have had majority control of the Senate (1/2 of CONGRESS) since 2007 -2012.
Note, Senator Obama was in the Senate during the Bush era.
2.The Democrats have had majority control of the House (1/2 of CONGRESS) since 2007 - Jan. 2011.
3. THE DEMOCRATS HAVE HAD 2/3s CONTOL of our government since 2007-2012.
Somehow the Democrats blame the Bush administration and the present Republican controlled House ( 2011-2012 ) for all the country's problems. WOW
Obama and mainstream media's propaganda machines should be commended for having done a fantastic job of half truths and misinformation on the American people. There is an old saying, ’’ seek the truth, the truth will set you FREE ’’.
Jon, You are part of the right wing propaganda machine. The half truths come out of you in the monotony of cherry picked facts you spill on to these comments. It is quite simple. President Obama has done his best to clean up President Bush's mess both economically and via foreign policy. He has done a fine job on both fronts and you are simply brainwashed by FOX News which is the right wing propaganda arm of the GOP.
HSchneider
UNLESS YOU OPEN YOUR MIND UP, I'M SORRY I CAN'T HELP YOU.
Try watching C-Span 1,2 and 3 and Foxnews business programs on Sat. morning or maybe Cavuto during the day if your not working.Whitehouse.gov sent my head swimming, it's nice talk but what Obama does is a lot different in REALITY.
Have a great day.
ps I always enjoy your hubs.
Jon, I work all day. When I am home I watch CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News in that order. Though I do also have other interests including sports and various other shows. I do not spend my whole day on the FOX conservative propaganda machine. That way my mind is open.
HSchneider
I am retired ,so I have more time now to find out what is happening The news media is doing a dis- service to the american people. Now let me give you another place Sat morning watch foxnews business A terrific no holds barred non political agenda You will be surprised what the press leaves out
Have a great day. Always enjoy our relationships and opinions
Jon,
I go through ALL of the news channels so I REALLY get a balance of news. Sticking with only FOX gives one only a right wing propaganda view. I also watch the evening news at CBS, NBC, and ABC. Put all of that together and its fair and balanced. FOX is terribly unfair and far right wing. Roger Ailes was a Reagan operative. He will pull every dirty trick and lie in the business and he is in charge of FOX News. Have a nice day.
HSchneider
It's kind of funny that foxnews out draws the whole bunch together.
Jon, That is because conservatives watch nothing else. The rest of us watch a wide variety of programming.
Hschneider
My friend, if I may, you and many others only have time for the mainstream apparently liberal media. ALL of the above are biased in their reporting and programming. When the President wants to spread the word, Obama will be granted TV time on any of them at a minutes call.
Each time he appears it's like a Hollywood production and a photo opt. A softball script and simple questions not to the point and long drawn replies to get his point over.
Sometimes it reminds me of Obama's press conferences. The press corps show up, Obama speaks and thanks everyone and leaves. No questions are allowed, try to catch one of his conferences sometime. Why are liberals told not to watch Fox News? Your comments are so far misguided from what actually happens on Foxnews. For example, you will NEVER see a news clip of Obama saying one thing and than just the opposite at another time. It's mind boggling how he makes statements that are just wrong.
We the people can only hope that in the next election ,we will make the right choices!
Jon, You are brainwashed. Saying all the other outlets are biased in favor of President Obama is right wing bull. You come on to my Hub and others and regurgitate the things you hear on FOX and other sites. Nothing you throw out hear is new. We both have stated our views ad nauseum. Enough. Come up with some new ideas and write a Hub about them.
HSchneider
THANKS FOR THE REPLY.My latest post on the healthcare fiasco for a reminder.
Try to understand the difference between the government and the liberties of the people that we have under our Constitution. A law, when passed by Congress covers all of the people. For the President to select who the law covers is not his prerogative after the law is passed. It’s Congress’s power to amend the law if Congress so chooses. The President in our country is not a king or a dictator as yet to command the insurance companies to pay for the cost of the service at no co-pay. The private sector is capable of managing healthcare without government intrusion into the private market.
The Affordable Care Act ( Obamacare ) was passed using unconventional tactics, reconciliation. The act was passed by a super majority political party even when 64% of the people polled were not in favor. The bill is flawed and the public are not being told what is in the bill. Remember when Speaker Pelosi said, ‘’ we must pass the bill so that we can find out what’s in it ‘’. Congressional members voted on the bill without reading the bill, were not allowed to debate the bill or allow the bill to go to committees. That’s what Obama calls transparency in his administration. The private sector needs to find out more about how their government is being run!
Jon, The status quo on healthcare in this country was unacceptable. The new Healthcare plan is a start. It is imperfect because the Republicans and moderate Democrats watered it down. Hopefully it will improve over the years. This is especially true when it goes into effect for the most part in 2014. You are against anything the Obama Administration does. The unemployed get no healthcare insurance. That is a travesty. I would gut all the healthcare insurance companies.
HSchneider
The Republicans had a solution for that.
Jon, The Republicans only solution is to line the pockets of their wealthy campaign contributors.
HSchneider
''their wealthy campaign contributors.''
who are these people?
Jon, These people are industrialists and financiers like the Koch Brothers who now finance them. The Citizens United decision allows them to contribute to campaigns with unlimited funds and virtually anonymously. They funded the Citizens United group to engineer that Supreme Court decision. This is how they make the GOP beholden to them and no one else. They funded and continue to fund Tea Party groups also. Read my Political Chicanery Hub.
Jon Ewall writes...
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''their wealthy campaign contributors.''
who are these people?
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Tea Party denial of the mega-corporate financing of their favorite candidates is perennially astounding. Anyway, here's a start...
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http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/06/nation/la-
Los Angeles Times
February 06, 2011
Koch brothers now at heart of GOP power
Reporting from Washington — The billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch no longer sit outside Washington's political establishment, isolated by their uncompromising conservatism. Instead, they are now at the center of Republican power, a change most evident in the new makeup of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.
...
Wichita-based Koch Industries and its employees formed the largest single oil and gas donor to members of the panel, ahead of giants like Exxon Mobil, contributing $279,500 to 22 of the committee's 31 Republicans, and $32,000 to five Democrats.
...
Nine of the 12 new Republicans on the panel signed a pledge distributed by a Koch-founded advocacy group — Americans for Prosperity — to oppose the Obama administration's proposal to regulate greenhouse gases. Of the six GOP freshman lawmakers on the panel, five benefited from the group's separate advertising and grass-roots activity during the 2010 campaign.
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There's more, but I don't want to overwhelm a single comment, so I'll put more in subsequent comments...
Here's more...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_activities_
Political activities of the Koch family
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lobbying for oil, gas, and chemical industries
Koch employees were the largest oil and gas industry donors to Congressmen and women on the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which is responsible for legislation affecting the industry. Koch employees donated $279,500 to 22 Republicans and $32,000 to five Democrats, including $20,000 to committee chairman Fred Upton (R-Michigan). ... Of the six Republican members who were elected to Congress for the first time, Americans for Prosperity supported five of their campaigns.[19] Of twelve Republicans newly appointed to the Committee, nine signed a pledge distributed by Americans for Prosperity to oppose greenhouse gas regulation....
Koch Industries and its subsidiaries spent more than $20 million on lobbying in 2008 and $12.3 million in 2009, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan research group. ... In an article about the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature study (Chair Richard A. Muller), Los Angeles Times reporter Margot Roosevelt called the Koch Brothers as "the nation's most prominent funders of efforts to prevent curbs on fossil-fuel burning". ...
===============
Here's more...
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http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2012/02/meet-the-b
As OpenSecrets Blog previously reported, Mitt Romney's campaign doubled the number of registered lobbyists bundling contributions for the candidate in the last quarter of the year, increasing his cadre of K Street fundraising surrogates from eight to 16. All told, they raised about $2.2 million for his campaign in 2011, according to Federal Election Commission filings.
Romney's biggest lobbyist fundraiser, Patrick Durkin, has lobbied for Barclay's Bank since 2009, and bundled $774,750 for Romney through the end of 2011. Romney's other bundlers have lobbied for such groups as Microsoft and Goldman Sachs.
=================
Here's more...
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http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2012/01/25/super-pa
Who's backing the GOP candidates?
January 25, 2012: 5:00 AM ET
Super PACs are spending super sums to finance their Republican favorites. Good luck tracking down the source of those funds.
...
Restore Our Future, the super PAC backing Mitt Romney focused its withering fire on Newt Gingrich in Iowa, reversing the former House Speaker's rise there. A fund supporting Gingrich responded in kind in South Carolina with the help of a $5 million infusion from casino magnate Sheldon Adelson.
...
So far, the super PACs have spent an estimated $32 million in the 2012 campaign. But we won't know where the bulk of that money came from until the end of the month, thanks to slick accounting maneuvers used to delay filing past the first four contests. Even then, donors could remain anonymous if they choose to route their checks through straw-man organizations. There's some precedent for that: Last summer, Restore Our Future accepted a $1 million check from a shell corporation. Under intense media and watchdog pressure, a Bain colleague of Romney's later acknowledged founding the company.
========================
And here's still more...
=========================
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/19/us/politics/wall
The New York Times
November 18, 2011
Vilifying Rival, Wall St. Rallies for Senate Ally
...
The battle to re-elect Senator Scott P. Brown, the Republican from Massachusetts, just got a little more interesting.
“Senator Brown is a free-market advocate who believes that our strength as a nation comes from the ingenuity and hard work of its people,” read an invitation to a fund-raiser at a New Canaan, Conn., country club last week, that circulated among hedge fund and private equity executives.
...
Mr. Brown, a freshman who harnessed populist Tea Party anger to win the seat once held by Edward M. Kennedy, has taken more money from the financial industry than almost any other senator: all told, more than $1 million during the last two years, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.
Of the 20 companies that accounted for the most campaign donations to Mr. Brown, about half were prominent investment or securities firms like Morgan Stanley, Fidelity Investments and Bain Capital. His donors include such blue-chip names as Gary Cohn, the president of Goldman Sachs, and the hedge fund kings John Paulson and Kenneth Griffin.
Mr. Brown, in turn, has been an important ally at critical moments, using his swing vote in the Senate to wring significant concessions out of Democrats on last year’s financial regulation bill, including helping strip out a proposed $19 billion bank tax and weakening a proposal to stop commercial banks from holding large interests in hedge funds and private equity funds.
=========================
Thank you for those links and the evidence that backs our opinion that big corporate money is funding the GOP. It is clear that this is the case but the GOP and conservatives will continue to deny it. Their heads are either in the sand or they are lying. Thank you again, LHwritings.
Hschneider & Company
‘’Thank you for those links and the EVIDENCE that BACKS our opinion that big corporate money is funding the GOP’’ Allow me to explain how the super pacs work according to the law. Candidates cannot associate directly with super pacs, the super pacs ( on both sides operate the same ) back candidates by running advertisement for a candidate. Obama on the campaign trail condemned and complained that the super pacs are controlling the elections. Well, what do you know, just last week Obama changed his tune. Now he tells HIS people to go out and associate with the pac groups. The Obama administration claimed that they will raise a $billion for the campaign run. Money don’t grow on trees, so who do you think the money is coming from? Some of Obama’s come from the taxpayers for the use of Air Force 1 and the support staff.
They both , the Democrats and Republicans raise money from rich people and special interests. The election process is corrupt!
LHwritings have pointed out stories of one of the groups, is that the best that he can find? How about the AFL-CIO Unions ,George Soros and Wallstreet who put Obama in office. Friends of Obama recently reported record profits, GENERAL MOTORS and GENERAL ELECTRIC. The profits were made not in our country, somehow they paid $0 corporate tax. Warren Buffet companies own the IRS $1 billion in taxes, HOW could that be when the government needs revenue to pay for government?
Jon, The VAST majority of the money is contributed by corporations to the GOP. Bringing up unions and George Soros is ridiculous. Their contributions are a drop in the bucket in comparison. You have proven you are brainwashed by FOX News. Those are their talking points. Corporate America has rigged the system against us.
Jon Ewall writes:
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LHwritings have pointed out stories of one of the groups, is that the best that he can find? How about the AFL-CIO Unions ,George Soros and Wallstreet who put Obama in office.
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Ewall originally questioned whether the GOP had "wealthy campaign contributors", with the implication that this somehow was not a factor of consequence for the Republican party. I provided substantial research evidence to the contrary, including evidence that corporate special interests had indeed been rewarded with political favors.
The Democrats are the OTHER party of the top corporate power structure, but they've successfully played the strategy of attracting a voting and support constituency among "progressive" groups and the trade union leadership, as well as their core base in Wall Street and the more liberal wing of the corporate elite (like Soros).
To try to equate the funding and influence of a trade union, say, the SEIU, with that of the Koch brothers' petrochemical empire is patently absurd. On the one hand, you've got the relatively meager contributions from the paychecks of individual union members; this compares with the annual revenue of Koch Industries of $98 BILLION (including some of our tax dollars — the company has received $100 million in U.S. government contracts since 2000).
I totally agree with you, LHwritings. That is exactly the point I last made to Jon.
fellow hubbers
The ACTION IS IN congress!
Congress has passed an extension of the payroll tax cut and long-term jobless benefits, handing to President Obama one of his election-year PRIORITIES despite widespread concerns about the bill's DEFICT implications.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/17/house-a
Today Feb. 17,2012, the Republican house voted to pass a 1 year extension to the Obama pay-roll tax credit for 160 million working Americans. The Senate followed within minutes approved the measure 60-36.Republicans GAVE UP on their demands that the tax cuts BE PAID FOR. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the package will INCREASE the budget deficit by $126 billion over the next five years.
"I cannot and I will not support legislation that extends the payroll tax holiday WITHOUT PAYING for it," said Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga. "This will add $100 billion to the deficit and it will create an even greater shortfall within the Social Security trust fund that already has over $100 billion SHORTFALL just in the last two years."
ON 2/13/10 President Obama signed PAY-GO legislation that require new spending to be offset with budgeted cuts. The legislation pushed thru by the President and a Democrat super majority Congress required all new spending to be deficit neutral.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/32921.ht
The end result of passing the bill without reducing spending, as required by the pay-go law, will be at the expense of the American taxpayer. The funds to supplement the social security trust fund will be borrowed and increase the National Debt. At a congressional hearing today, a Congressman stated that the actual unfunded liabilities of our government is $96 TRILLION, parts of which is Medicare, Social Security, government Pensions and other non mentionables.
WE HAVE A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT! President Lincoln once said, ‘’ To remain silent is to be a coward ‘’. Senator Coburn needs support. The Senator Coburn report '' WASTE IN GOVERNMENT'' fellow Americans there are many places to cut spending!
Jon, Congress passed the payroll tax cut extension and extension of unemployment benefits because they know they are being hammered because they are wrong on the politics. The people who receive these benefits instantly must spend them. This stimulates our weak economy. But you can continue to hammer away at your same old tired points. Cut the deficit by increasing the tax rates on the wealthy and cutting their loopholes.
HSchneider
GUARANTEED information that you NEVER seen on the mainstream!
12/04/11
Key Lawmakers on Extending Payroll Tax Cut
Sens. Coburn, Conrad on 'Fox News Sunday'
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/inde/v/1309416477001/key-lawmakers-on-extending-payroll-tax-cut/?playlist_id=86913
2/13/10
President Barack Obama is hailing PAYGO legislation PAYGO compels new spending not add to the federal deficit. http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&
Barak and the Dems
PROMISE BENEFIT and pay for later $830 billion increase THAT’S NOT HOW PAY-GO WORKS
The Truth Behind the Debt Ceiling Debate
YOU DIDN'T FORGET?
HSchneider
VAN HOLEN AND RYAN
ON SUNDAY '' MEET THE PRESS '' DON'T MISS THE PROGRAM
It will help you to understand both sides of the coin.
Hoping to hear your thoughts
Jon, I would like the payroll tax cut extension to be a PAYGO item. I would raise taxes on the wealthy and cut corporate loopholes. The problem is the GOP would never go along because they are in the pocket of Corporate America and Grover Norquist. They want to cut social programs which have already been cut. The two sides are at loggerheads. Therefore both sides caved and allowed this to pass without PAYGO. BOTH SIDES. The politics on this is terrible for the GOP and they finally have capitulated.
Jon, I was out for the Meet the Press show this morning. Also please stop giving me FOX News sites. They are the propaganda arm of the GOP. You continue to be brainwashed.
HSchneider
LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF '' A FOOL ''.I'm not sure who you watched on Fox NEWS to make such an assinine statement?
The extremist right must think all of us are as cerebrally challenged as they are. They have a penchant for "forgetting" what conflicts with their propaganda du jour.
George W. Bush and the GOP managed to erase the modest budget surplus produced by Clinton (the result of policies such as "ending welfare as we know it"), and then proceeded to goose the U.S. budget deficit and federal debt load into the stratosphere by just scrapping the Pay-Go policy (especially by using smoke-and-mirror budget subterfuge to do so).
Now it's, OMG, the terrible, terrible Obama, just forcing the poor, valiant Teapot GOP into agreeing to the pay cut package without Pay-Go! Oh, horror, horror, the shame!
Moving on from this Reality Daily Show ... to Lincoln? By today's Teapot GOP standards, Lincoln must be a socialist, Communist, and probably Islamist (somehow) ... Look what dastardly thing he did to the valiant, hardworking, taxpaying slaveowners of his time. Why, he destroyed an entire industry, and even released their assets (slaves) into the public domain! Ah, the Communist perfidy!
LHwritings
Come down out of the clouds.i'll repeat again.
There is a lot more waste in Washington that could be cut. The President's Payroll Tax bill is not paid by cutting cost as required by PAY-GO LAW.
CHECK IT OUT.
1. 2/13/10
President Barack Obama is hailing PAYGO legislation PAYGO compels new spending not add to the federal deficit. http://chicagoconsultant.com/page2.php?category=2&
2.WASTE IN GOVERNMENT ALL IN THE RED
‘’ Back In Black’’ The Obama’s stash, do not touch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tVJ2gqqKWs
3.
The Senator Coburn report '' WASTE IN GOVERNMENT'' http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/rightnow
Prsident Obama and the Congress are robbing the Social Security Trust fund by giving the tax break and is increasing the National Debt by $100 billion more just to give working people a break. The unemployed workers are footing the bill, the President believes in ''FAIRNESS''.
Oh MY! A NEW UNEMPLOYMENT REPORT FOR FEB, UNEMPLOYMENT is back to 9 %. Wonder why? Just a lot of SMOKE AND MIRRORS again.
Jon, There is always waste in government to be cut but not as much as you think. I would never believe a report by the FAR Right Republican Senator Coburn. He wants to cut waste but loves to give tax breaks to oil companies. That my friend is waste.
The extremist right living on the Fox News Planet are all suddenly drawing momentous conclusions from a Gallup poll suggesting a 0.7-point uptick in the unemployment rate in February. But we're still in February — how's about waiting till the month is over before declaring an unemployment rate for it?
Also ... The Federal government calculates the unemployment rate on a different basis from Gallup. So how can one compare the two and claim there's this huge surge? Also ... the Federal government's rate is determined for the ENTIRE month. I'm not sure what Gallup's is based on, but I really doubt they're actually clairvoyant.
It is all a ploy by the Republicans to weaken the President. Roger Ailes was a campaign consultant for President Reagan and worked and still works for the party. The fair and balanced network is really the propaganda arm of the GOP. Thanks again for your comments, LHwritings.
![Tax Cuts Spur GDP Growth? Oh Really! Let's Just Take a Look - (Expanded Version) [16]](http://s1.hubimg.com/u/4118996_50.jpg "Tax Cuts Spur GDP Growth? Oh Really! Let's Just Take a Look - (Expanded Version) [16]")
brages07 Level 3 Commenter 10 months ago
Great hub! Your comment about Republicans acting like children is absolutely spot on. I have worked with five year-olds, and Republicans seem to have a five year-old's understanding of the word fair. They also seem to think that fair means getting their way all of the time.